My point is outlawing guns in Britain didn't make them go away.
No.:p
I am not the problem or the solution.

This entire scenario has been utterly, completely debunked in all 38 states of the Union that have strongly liberalized concealed carry of weapons, Spexx. It simply does not happen, and is a hoplophobic fantasy of yours brought on by your unbalanced thinking on the subject -- as set forth in Raging Against Self Defense. I'll rely more on the experience of 38 states, with the body count and the economic loss count to crime going permanently down, than on the views of one hoplophobe. You should rely upon that yourself -- even if you're terrified of what this might open a trapdoor to, inside your forebrain.

We know the truth, and it has made us free. But if you can't know the truth, it shan't make you free. I think I'd want to be free of what afflicts you, though, if I stood in your shoes. You're really being creepy, Spexx.

Guess I'd better link to Raging Against Self Defense to show people what I'm on about.

You mean volunteer for genocide, and extra crime, the only results ever seen from this kind of thing. Spexx, even with your twisted values, it's not worth it even for you.

This idea we moral people reject forever and ever. If you wish to be a moral person, you must reject it forever also. Do it, man! No matter how much it scares you, I guarantee disarming yourself so you get killed without means of resisting it, retail as in crime or wholesale as in genocide, is much more terrifying, much more the pit of despair.

I don't think anyone could possibly disagree, though, that someone with NO guns is less likely to shoot me than someone with any.

Right?

Right but wholly irrelevant.

A) The world cannot be sterilized from danger, nor would you want to live in such a place. But more importantly,

B) I caution, resist the urge to solve politics with equations. It seems like it would work that way sometimes, but math is perfect and humans are imperfect.

In exactly the same way that someone with no hands is less likely to shoot you than someone with any. Fantasy-land scenarios are a waste of time.

This reminds me of an "old" joke, which I tell for the humor and not at all as part of the debate:

Q: How many gun control proponents does it take to change a lightbulb?

A: None. They just pass a law against darkness.

Isn't it a fantasy-land scenario that you'll have a gun and be able to use it to stop personal injury or loss of posessions? For that to happen, you would have to have your gun with you, loaded, safety off, at the ready, and anticipate the threat, be able to correctly determine if the threat is real (don't want to make a victim out of an innocent person), be able to aim and hit a target, and have the willingness to kill and face the consequences of killing - all before the aggressor does it to you first.

I wonder how many American thought, in 1860, that slavery could be eliminated?

The factof the matter is that firearms are here to stay. There is no way of hunting down each and every criminal and taking away their weapons. Do you truly believe that our law enforcement is capable of rounding up every gun that every criminal currently has, and then keeping new ones from being smuggled in? If that were the case then no country would have a drug problem either.

Keep in mind, I'm not advocating the use of firearms. As far as I'm concerned, they serve no purpose beyond killing. I'm a gun RIGHTS advocate, I believe that you have the right to defend what is yours within reason. If someone breaks into my apt and goes after me, my girlfriends, or Kait, we should have the right and ability to protect ourselves.

Sorry, not a fantasy.
 

I was in just that situation 1 1/2 years ago and the story's here

There have already been several firsthand accounts of that exact thing here. How many do you need?

How many do you need to justify all the shooting deaths? Philadelphia averaged more than a shooting death a day last year. How many lives does it take to justify foiling the theft attempts of Mrnoodle's sound equipment, Kitsune's car, and Jordan's generator?

I'd rather have one and not need it, than need one and not have it.

Tell me, do you ever gamble? That's what criminals do, they know that they run the risk of getting shot and/or going to jail for doing something illegal... then they go out and commit the crime anyways. They willfully break the law, and the police can't be everywhere at once. Now you're saying we eliminate half of their risks? I just don't think so. Why should I work my butt off for a generator I may only use ever once 2-3yrs only to have a crook waltz off with it?

Not far from where I grew up they fire off guns for a birthday, Independence Day, New Years, sporting events and occasionally at one another. Are you saying that I should give up my defensive tools and allow others to prowl the streets with their firearms at the ready? Nopers, not gonna happen.

I don't gamble with my life or my family's life. I think owning a gun is taking a gamble. Will a child get hold of it? Will there be an accidental discharge that kills someone? Will I misjudge a situation, and kill an innocent person? Will my brandishing a gun cause someone to kill me before I can kill them?

No. My position is about handguns. Can you protect yourself and your family with a rifle or shotgun?

Would you have killed someone - taken a life - over a generator that you use once every 2-3 years?

No. There are plenty of defensive tools. Motion lights, alarms, tasers, bullet-proof vests, and all kinds of behavior. Most of them can't be used to commit crimes or hurt others.

No. I disagree that handguns would be around long, if it's handled properly. Just by enforcing or strengthening current laws, for instance a mandatory life sentence for using a handgun to commit a crime or for irresponsible use of a handgun, those who misuse handguns will be out of circulation pretty quickly. If they switch to rifles, they'll be more identifiable. I know there will be exceptions to these rules, but guns will go away the same way cigarette smoking is going away.

Listen, you can pack a piece, and protect your family while they are with you. Other gun owners may not be as responsible as you. If your child's classmate gets a hold of his father's gun, brings it to school and shoots your child, the gun in your pocket didn't help. If someone breaks into a house and steals guns, and shoots you pre-emptively while they're stealing your generator, your gun didn't help. If you get raped in a parking lot because your gun is locked in your gun safe at home, it didn't help. But, because you reserve the right to own a gun, others have guns, and can use them to commit crimes, and have lethal accidents. Is it worth it?