Just to correct a misconception. There are very few purebred dogs in animal shelters. Shelter dogs are not the fault of pedigreed dog breeders. They are the result of irresponsible dog owners. Some shelters import dogs from out of the country to meet the consumer demand in their area. Some shelters in New York import from Russia, some Texas shelters import dogs from Mexico. I know where every dog I ever bred is/was and many breeders have the same ethics.

Ignorance is not always bliss.

The truth is in the middle of some of these articles I realize hyperbole does exist but there is legislation pending to prevent the importation of large quantities of dogs that would be for sale at animal shelters.

http://doglawsatlarge.blogspot.com/2...und-world.html

http://www.naiaonline.org/Library/un...on_crisis.html

Bringing the Problem Home

Starting with many of the same eradication measures currently being employed in third world countries, it took the US nearly a century and a half to get its surplus dog problem under control; indeed, it has only been during the last 10 years that the demand for dogs has become equal to or greater than the supply in many parts of the country. In fact, what the US has today is a dog distribution problem, not a dog overpopulation problem -- a situation that has led to a practice labeled humane relocation.17

In some parts of the USA today, demand for dogs so far outstrips supply that the public -- bolstered by state-of-the-art advertising campaigns for rescued dogs -- are willing, even anxious, to adopt dogs with severe behavioral and medical problems. Where healthy, well-tempered, adoptable dogs were once euthanized by the millions for lack of shelter space, Americans today are lining up to pay large sums of money to adopt problem dogs; ones that are blind, deaf, missing limbs or suffer from serious behavioral issues or chronic diseases. Organizations that began their work when there was still a serious surplus dog problem in the US are now bringing in dogs from any place they can find them and asking their kind-hearted donors to fund costly surgeries to correct heart defects and other problems so that the dogs they’ve rescued can be saved.18

Other groups import maimed dogs for adoption into the US from great distances, even foreign countries where street dogs are plentiful.19

I don't care where you get your dog, as long as it is well cared for. (which is a matter of opinion btw... keep reading this long post to see my explaination) Pretty much every shelter will lie to get the dogs placed, and that is why many dogs have been shelter dogs more than once... it can get overwhelming to some families. We have known puppies that were returned to the breeders because "they no longer matched the couch" or because "they had a child, or have to move". These same excuses are why dogs are in shelters too. Every new dog owner should have to go through school. If you are not consistant with training and care, the dog will act out. The reason there are soo many shelter dogs (and cats) is because its so expensive to get an animal fixed. Once the cute factor is gone, many inexperianced owners dont bother getting them fixed. All of a sudden they have a litter, and now everyone goes to the shelter, they could not look after one, and now they have 7! Shelters charge to surrender your animals in Canada, so there is another reason why idiots just let the animals go, or drop them off in the country somewhere. these dogs are lucky to get taken to a shelter, many get hit by cars and eaten by wild animals or simply starve. All responsible breeders I know, take thier dogs back with no questions asked. It could be a 3 month old, or 13 yr old. That is one reason you may not see purebreads in a shelter that often.

That being said I got my first boxer, Freya from a large breeding kennel and training facility. It was run by a woman who had been showing and breeding dogs for over 30 years. It was a very clean, almost sterile environment. Freya was healthy, cared for, had her own kennel at night. She was walked daily and when that was not possible she was put on a tread mill. She knew how to walk on a leash, knew sit and lay down. That was it. She was shy with people and had few social skills with other dogs but play as a boxer does (which scares many dogs, and most humans at first) Freya had never been in a car, in town or around many people. She had never been inside a house for that matter. She was 11 months old when we got her. The breeder knew more about her 2 breeds of dogs then anyone else I have ever met. They were dogs, not furry human replacements in the family. They worked, either as gaurd dogs, companions, show dogs, etc...

Now, to me... this was not quite right. I was concerned about the lack of love and bonding. To some, you would consider the breeder to be callous and mean, when in reality she was practical. The dogs, once sold got the love and caring I feel they all need.

I got my boxer pup Loki from a backyard breeder in town just this week. Loki was 14 weeks old and too skinny for his age (runt) While his parents were bred at a house, I soon found he was kept mostly outside, and only came in at night. His nails were cut too short and all of his claws are now bruised because of it. It will grow out, nothing about his care was a permanent issue...
While I was picking him out, and paying for him, a few things sent warning bells off in my head. Nothing bad enough to call the SPCA, but things that were just not right with me (again that quailty of care opinion thing) 2 of the puppies in his litter died at 2 weeks old "because they got cold" These pups were born in April... not too cold out by then, and why were they not inside? The woman also bred siamese cats, and had two litters in 15 weeks by the same parents. Really? give your cat a break lady...now did they cat get out one day and get caught? did she deliberately breed the second time? I do not know, I did not ask.

Now my 2 dogs are house pets, completely spoiled. They are allowed on the couch, they have food, water, toys and walks. They have 2 parents who love them more than 2 adults should I am sure. They also have a teenage "boy" to look after. They have a large yard to play in, and if we ever move, we move into a place that takes my entire family, and that includes my 2 fur babies. Oh and both my babies have health issues. Freya has a heart murmur, she developed at about a year and a half old. We could have taken her back... but really she is ours, and I would not even think about it! Loki has distichiasis ( eyelashes growing inside his eye, that may or may not require surgery to fix later) I was told about that AFTER I paid for him.... did that stop me from taking him home? no, just means I might not get to go on a date night one night, or something. So that he can have his surgery. Hopefully I can get it done at the same time he is neutered and it will not cost much, considering he is already under.

Maybe seeing another side of things might show you, that in my opinion Nirvana was not trying to piss you off. The internet is a great place to get misunderstandings, as there is no emotion in words on a screen. Maybe in your sensitive state you took things to heart more than they were meant to? Either way, I am sorry for your family's loss, and sorry your family member's way of coping upset you. Give your |Della a hug, and hopefully tomorrow will be a better day for you.

Probably a bad time to say, I would like a retired grey hound, not for any noble reason...tho..

*my mind keeps spinning the grey hound thing* * They are many kinds of grey hounds* * old men* * buses* *racing dogs* It's a toss up between 1 and 3.

Dogs certainly control their humans ;)

The Power of the Dog


There is sorrow enough in the natural way
From men and women to fill our day;
And when we are certain of sorrow in store,
Why do we always arrange for more?
Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.

Buy a pup and your money will buy
Love unflinching that cannot lie--
Perfect passion and worship fed
By a kick in the ribs or a pat on the head.
Nevertheless it is hardly fair
To risk your heart to a dog to tear.

When the fourteen years which Nature permits
Are closing in asthma, or tumour, or fits,
And the vet's unspoken prescription runs
To lethal chambers or loaded guns,
Then you will find--it's your own affair--
But ... you've given your heart to a dog to tear.

When the body that lived at your single will,
With its whimper of welcome, is stilled (how still!)
When the spirit that answered your every mood
Is gone--wherever it goes--for good,
You will discover how much you care,
And will give your heart to a dog to tear.

We've sorrow enough in the natural way,
When it comes to burying Christian clay.
Our loves are not given, but only lent,
At compound interest of cent per cent.
Though it is not always the case, I believe,
That the longer we've kept 'em, the more do we grieve:
For, when debts are payable, right or wrong,
A short-term loan is as bad as a long--
So why in--Heaven (before we are there)
Should we give our hearts to a dog to tear?



Rudyard Kipling

you guys don't know me... I'm a newbie to these parts but...

mrs. G and I have lived in a tiny little house... part of an old farm complex for 11 years this month

our landlord lives at the bottom of the courtyard

his parents live across the courtyard from us and while we have never called them this to their faces to us they have been "granma and granpa"

granma passed away yesterday and granpa came over to our house 7:00am this morning to let us know.

no, they are not family but we have always felt close to them

R.I.P Mme Baudin

Grych I'm so sorry to hear that.
Mme Baudin is in my thoughts now.
You do NOT need to have a blood connection with someone to be close to them and grief is grief.

Nirv, sorry to be a moaner again, but Kipling did write some doggerel (pun intended).

I'm not a dog fan, and I think pretty much everyone knows that, but I can and have loved individual dogs. In fact I got a magazine from The Dog's Trust this morning - they never put a dog down except for health reasons. I donate to them because John Barrrowman is one of their sposors and sometimes has a competition where you have to donate to be elegible for a JB prize. Probably shocking to dog lovers, but it works.

Staffordshire Bull Terriers/ crosses now make up 43% of Battersea Dogs' Home intake (it's the most famous Dog & Cats' Home in England). That is irresponsible breeding and ownership.

How sickening.

Now my own upset.

Sweet shining hell, it's 30 degrees here! (82)
I cannot move without sweating.
The fans are woefully useless.
It's not even bloody sunny (although if it was I wouldn't dare sexpose myself to it - mis-spelling intentional)

Crikey me, it's hot.

step one..
Asda and buy a bag of ice
step two
while at Asda buy a bottle of tonic
step three
hey you're there already... pickup a bottle of gin ( I can recommend Hendricks )

combine ingredients, consume,
repeat as needed.

Oh dear. 82 sounds like winter to me, right now.

SICK of HEAT!

wow... really hot there in the east Pacific eh?

Yeah, I live in Bali Hai'o.

(I slay me)

grynch probably doesn't know...I live in Ohio. I'm sorry. It's not my fault. :(

Now I must go wash that man right outta my hair.

monkey... no I didn't know that... and please let me express my condolences.

Thanks. I also accept cash.

only if you're dressed as above... :p:

Gin makes me gag.
As does heat.

Thank FSM I'm not working until Sept.
(Soz to all who are, with a sneaky added snicker).

Sky, you aren't going to make a penny on a retired grey hound. The reason they retire them is that they just don't win races. You really want to get a new, fresh one. Look for reputable breeders but expect to pay some coin.

Good luck!

Found out today our new neighbour (new as in less than 5 years) has 3 Italian Greyhounds.
They are very quiet, as in I rarely hear them barking.
Saw two of them today and they are GORGEOUS!
(picture is not them, but they are very similar)
But really lovely.

This should be in the Happy Thread I guess!

They look a bit like meerkats up close.
And are a bit nervy and licky.
And sculpted-looking, if that makes sense.

If I didn't have Diz (and I do, and I love him completely) I might be tempted to steal one. Only not really, as I'd be found out pretty soon and prosecuted, given they are neighbours.

£600 average apparently.
I didn't like them that much....

Ooooo! Santa's Little Helpers!

cuuuuuuute!

neighbors of one of my brothers run a greyhound rescue site ... retired racers and such... and while cute the dogs I've seen have almost all been very timid and very skittish

I never felt "drawn" to any of them ( and consider myself a dog person ) and when they were let off of a lead ....................they just flew... old instincts I suppose.

They're sight hounds, like Irish Wolfhounds. Unlike smell hounds like a bloodhound, they'll chase whatever they see.

I want an Irish Wolfhound. That's my dream dog. I also want a pet cow. A horse or two. No monkeys, though.

There's a guy near me with an Italian Greyhound. Right bonny thing it is too. Incredibly precise movements.

£600 ain't such a big tag for a pedigree. Bearded Collie pups sell for anywhere betwen £200 and £800 depending on lineage.

£600 is 'spensive to me!
Diz was only £150!

Yes, that's also out of my price range now, but when I think about what I got for it, I am so grateful. And that's the draw I guess.
Although both my boys were neutered, whereas her girls are entire. The main reason I saw them today was that they are being segregated from the boy because they are on heat.

I'm quite stern about these things. If you pay £600 for an animal you can afford to get it fixed. I'll listen to anyone who disagrees, but personally I am all about pets being fixed. It's NOT natural. It DOES hurt. But it is kind in the long run. IMHO.

We didn't get our dog fixed. Money. And it was a kick in the cunt every time she was in season. Mum & Dad chose to go on holiday instead.
They fixed all our cats though.
Cheaper, maybe.

I've always had boy cats - chance not judgement - and I had two operated on, and two came to me already done. It felt right.

Irish Wolfhounds only live to be 7-8 they break your heart they are the sweetest dear creatures.

Pet cows I got em :) I had an Italian Greyhound once his name was Cyclone :)[/superficial posting]

I know that about the Irish. My ex and I went to an IW show in Lexington...over 400 of them in the show, many staying at the same hotel. I learned about their short life-span. But OMG they're so gentle and cute and HUGE. It makes me almost cry thinking about losing one so relatively young. I fell in love with them the first year I saw the Westminster Dog Show (I'd stayed home from work...YEARS ago, and caught it...for a few years after that I'd plan days off to watch it. Before interwebz, of course.)

I'll probably never be in the right situation for dog-owning anyway.

I want a pet capybara

Of course you will and you will post photos here of Ian or Colin or whatever his name will be :)

I never know my pets' name until I see them. Then the perfect name just comes to me.

Like Toonces Riley (I thought he could drive a car)
Gainesboro Thomas (He's part Russian Blue)
Madison Toto (He followed me home and needed medicine)
Taj Ma Hall (she was calico-y and had an orange dot on her forehead)

I inherited the names of my last two boys.
Dylan was a name I'd have been tempted to give anyway, but it was one the breeder suggested I might want to change. He was under a year old and she usually called him Twinkle.

Diz was Dizney.
Oh no, no, no.
Diz he became. Diz he remains.
I will elongate his name to The Diz-cat and far more silly ones I won't admit to. And my nephew calls him Dizzy. But that's as far as it goes.

Like me talking to Gaines: hey gainesy wainesy kee kat boy. gainesy wainesy bugsy wugsy is a kee kat boy, a kee kat boy...

Pilau ended up with his name because when we went to see him the first time, the breeder told us he was a tricolour bearded collie, which are apparently quite desirable amongst the show set. And he was three very distinct colours: a deep chocolate brown, with white collie flash round his collar and the back of his neck, and some white on his legs and belly. He also had little flashes of bright ginger on the backs of his legs and a few other places including the sides of his eyes.

So...celebration pilau rice usually comes in three colours *smiles*

Oh dear.
Same here I'm afriad.

Diz is Babba-lou (because I can rhyme it with What's up with you, Babba-lou?)
Babba-boy (no excuse for that one)
Troublicious
Boychick
Monkey-trousers (esp when flaunting his bum)
Monstarry
Angel-Pie and from that just Pie or Piya
I knew the story but it's still a cool name.
Now tell us the embarrassing names you call him.
Infi and I have already confessed.

Oh gosh...so many...

Pilster, Mr P., Pilau Poppet, Pilau Brown Bread, Muffin, muppet, Baby boy, sweetie pie, beastie bum, The pudster, Pud, pudding, Pilau pudding. My very own brahn baby (fast show ;p). And sometimes I tell him he's my beautiful beardie with long brown hair (which is a bastardisation of a Smack the Pony sketch). Oh yeah, and sometimes I call him Poor Pilau of the Poorly Paw.

I use show quotes a lot with him. Like sometimes I'l tell him: I am your mummy. I will always be your mummy (from DoctorWho, The Empty Child).

I talk to him a lot. I tell him he's my little wolf. My little wolf in lamb's clothing. I tell him that it's not right when people say he' a bad dog...they don't understand. It's not easy being Brown. And it's so unfair when peoplecast aspersions because, at the end of the day, he's just doin' his doggy best, as he understands it, with his doggy brain, and nobody, nobody could ask any more o fhim than that.

This is the sort of shit I am saying to him whilst stroking him :p

Oh yeah, and I tell him he's a good dog. A clever dog, and so polite. Never raises his voice, never shouts. He's just really, really good, and really really quiet. And that's why everybody loves Pilau. They all love Pilau, 'cause he's so good.

Bravo, Dana! :)

I have more, I can confess.
Mebbe we need a new thread.
Single Women Who Talk to Their Pets But Will Smack You in the Chops if You Suggest Said Pets Are Child Substitutes.

If Diz was a child he'd have been taken into care by now, the things I sometimes say to him.
Oh and on account of him being dyslexlical.

Pilau would by now have progressed from a young offenders institute to proper prison.

Autumn Nicole - My JRT doggie. Her nickname is Tummy (AuTUM - get it?)

Spiderman - a very tomboyish girl kitty who is black.

Zoey (the new momma!) - a long haired black kitty with the attitude of a dumb blonde.

Carly - a calico who is as sweet as candy. Nickname Carlita-Pumpkin Pita.

Stella - a tabby who is really a boy but we thought was a girl for a loooong time. Poor thing.

and Harry. RIP Harry. He died two New Year Days ago. We called him Hare the Bear.

Beau, my first very own totally unshared cat, was almost always just Bo Bo.

Turbo is the 'little one' most times. And that just comes from when he was a little kitty and I would put him on the bed and whisper to him to go to sleep. Which he usually did. Now when I whisper to him, he will still blink his eyes like he is getting sleepy. My sweet little one.

We call our dog Cleo Ki-ki mostly because Max still only pronounces her name Kee-o. I call my cat Shadow, shaddy baddy because he is a bad kitty sometimes. We have a cat called Skinny who gets Skinny Mini a lot because she really is a little cat. Gizmo gets Gizzy a lot and Dolly gets Dolly Wolly. At other times they are all referred to in profane language.

My blue Australian cattle dog will actually come to "shut yer piehole" Cattle dogs have a keening kind of shriek. The phrase is warranted!!

Do you really think I want a retired grey hound so I can make money and win races? :cool:

Big Sarge.
I am worried and too far away to help.

We only have an internet relationship but I know he's one of the good guys, he's so thoughtful, loves his family, has served his country and now feels abandoned in the hell of ill health.

And I can't do anything except try to think of kind words.

Sometimes that's all we can do. Your caring thoughts mean so much to him, I'm sure. Knowing people care is sometimes all we need to keep putting one foot in front of the other.

Get well soon, Sarge. If you do I'll mail Sundae to you, after I win the lottery. ;)

Not in duct tape I hope!

I was thinking saran wrap. ;)

Sweat-tastic!

No, but I did think you had a sense of humor.:cool:

Riots in Tottenham (North London).
It's a volatile area, but seeing London on fire just makes me feel ill.

It started as a peaceful protest outside the police station on Tottenham High Road, but quickly turned to violence and mob rule. It was ostensibly about the shooting of a man on Thursday - police said he fired on an officer and was shot and killed.

It ended with burning buildings, one police van, two police cars, looting, destruction of property and people leaving their homes with nothing on their backs only to return in the morning to burnt out shells. People's livelihoods effectively destroyed.

Animals are smart enough not to shit where they eat; what is with these people?!
Although it is suspected that many who turned up from midnight onwards were organised theives, who attacked a retail park half a mile from the centre of the action, in order to specifically rob a sports clothing store and an electrical store.

Let's hope todays two big football matches (in different parts of London) and the Hackney Carnival aren't touched by any of the same madness.

I know, I felt my stomach sink slightly as I was watching the news. Felt like watching the Brixton riots way back when Ghost Town was a hit.

Animals are smart enough not to shit where they eat, and so are humans, but crowds aren't just collections of individuals. The way a crowd responds is different to the way any of the individuals making it up respond.

There's clearly a lot of ill-feeling around this. Friends, family and neighbours are adamant that the man who was shot and kiled was not armed, and would not have shot at anybody. Yes he was a bit of a rogue, but not a violent man, according to those who knew him. They are angry at how the police have responded, and let's face it, wuold you really trust the police to review such a shooting fairly? I mean, ffs look at the Menenez shooting.

Horrible to see though. And really horrible to see the ones who just went on a mad looting and destruction spree.

I am always slightly dubious when I hear about an initially peaceful demonstration turning ugly. How many times have we been told that all was well until the black flag waving anarchists kicked off, only to find out later, that what started the violence was police kettling tactics?

I have been present at two major London protest marches in my life, and on both occasions they turned into a riot. On both occasions it was the bloody police who started it. On both occasions it was reported as trhe protestors turning ugly, and in each case it was later determined that the police had acted with calculated and needless aggression (in the Poll tax demo going so far as to remove their numbers from their epaulettes) and in doing so turned a peaceful crowd into a riotous mob.

Not saying this happened in Tottenham. But am definately dubious about what sparked this. I've seen first hand how the bastards use those dogs, horses and riot police when faced with protestors.

For me it's just the weather.

Eye witnesses are complaining that the Police stood back and did nothing.
That they were scared and ran away.

They can't win, really.

And who goes mob-handed and shouts in front of a police station expecting answers?

A vigil, a petition, some sort of campaign. Yes.
Standing in the street and demanding answers? Yeah, way to go in a volatile area.

Meh - you know I'm more right wing than you anyway...

It just always sickens me to see people caught up in events beyond their control. And burning homes and stealing cars and wrecking shops which people are trying to work in... I dunno. I don't think I'll ever see a cause "valid" enough.

I get what you're saying about mob mentality though.
As it was, so it shall be :(

That kind of destruction is no answer to grievances. What it is though is an expression of anger and frustration (usually) and when that happens in the context of a crowd, it can mushroom fast.

I'm probably the last person you'd expect to be violent. But I was just as eagerly throwing pieces of broken concrete at the riot police as anybody else at the Poll Tax demo. And I remember, very clearly, at one point, the part of the march I was with spilled into a side street where a police van was coming in our direction, moving slowly because of the people. For some reason, the mesh shield was raised, and his windshield was unprotected. We swarmed that van. There were people on top of it stamping, we were throwing things at the window, a couple of people were trying to stave the windshield in with wooden sticks that had once been attached to protest signs.

The police van backed out of the side street.

Now. I know that the man in that van was just an ordinary guy doing his job. Possibly with a wife and child at home, probably scared. But at that moment he was just the enemy. Because an hour earlier, I'd just seen one of my friends knocked unconscious by a police man when the crowd was still just shouting slogans. It was that event that kicked off the violence at that part of the demo (opposite the entrance to Downing Street). A big burly cop leaning over the barrier and punching a 17 year old girl to the ground.

A little later, as J and i were running down another street, there were a group looting an off-licence. We joined in.

It's hard to explain what the atmosphere of a riot is. It is a very peculiar feeling, when a demonstration turns into a riot. It's not like anything else I have ever experienced. Being part of a crowd action is weird, it changes the rules, it changes you.

I would imagine being part of something like that might even feel...cathartic? I'd like to punch some random dude from Wall Street just to make myself feel better.

I admit, if I was caught on the street and there was looting of an off-licence, I would be tempted to join in. On the understanding that "It can't hurt any more now."

I can't say I'd feel the same about JD Sports.

Very much so Bri. Very much so.

@ Sundae: yeah....I'm not sure I'd be over eager to loot a healthfood store...Thornton's on the other hand...




Just to be clear, I'm not saying the police started this. It could well be that this is an instance of a small group of protestors holding a vigil being disrupted by others looking for trouble. Just that I have learned over the years to view with great suspicion the initial reports of such events.

You've made me smile at least. The idea of you, bandana-faced, running off with armfuls of mung beans and tofu.

I bet people automatically assume you're a veggie too...

It's amazing how often they do.

And the times I've arrived at group meetings with a McD's coffee and someone's said: I wouldn't have thought you'd go in McDonalds...

I used to understand why people thought I was a veggie.
Left wing, small and skinny, outspoken.

But now I am more self-effacing and as previously mentioned I look like a farmer's wife.
But in the staffroom people still point me to the vegetarian food, or offer to check packets for me before I eat.
Perhaps it's the hair (the hair proves it).

And that made me smile. :)