Ahuh :p

I can't think of a more graphic example of political paralysis than this. It's unreal.

Well, something's moved.
The political calculus of having this bill passed in the House and putting the Senate in the position of having to reject it remains to be seen. In a poker perspective, it is such a huge bluff that it can't possibly be believed. This is a ridiculous bill, and I'll tell you why before you criticize me as a Democratic partisan. The debt ceiling has to be raised. This is undisputed by every sane person. To link this necessary action to a second action is complicated enough but to link it to an action that has been accomplished only 27 times in our nation's history. A constitutional amendment is extremely rare and difficult to make happen, surely those who voted for this bill know this. Then how could we get this done?

How can we get the debt ceiling raised? How will we pay the people we owe? Because the constitutional amendment absolutely isn't going to happen in the next couple days. Here's why: (cue civics lesson)
Hm, given the appalling lack of cooperation in the political sphere these days, what do you think of the prospect of having both houses pass agree by a 2/3 majority, and then have 3/4 of the states, 38 separate states also say yes, this is to be done. Right, the answer to that is zero.

Not happening, just like this bill's prospect of success in the Senate.

I too am wondering WTF these maniacs are doing. Even if this is resolved without default, they have done permanent damage to America's reputation and standing, not to mention their own economy and the world economy.

I ask myself, could they really be so crazy as to sabotage their own economy to make some pointless political statement?

Then I ask myself, are they so crazy they take creationism as a literal truth and believe the end times are upon us?

I do not like the answers.

Tinned food, people, it's the currency of the future.

They hate on the right is so great, they would (and have done) happily destroy this country just so they can say look what happens when a black man runs the country.

The politicians are living in a bigger bubble than we all at first imagined.

To cut of the proverbial nose to spite the face. They don't seem to even care that people are even watching this fiasco, not to mention see it for what it really is.

The economy tanking with a Democrat in the Presidency is something some GOP partisans they think they can use. If you look at who is in the Congress (both sides of the aisle actually) you'll realize it isn't their economy. They live in a much different country than the rest of us.

Never forget what the political agenda says. "We want Obama to fail". As stated by the philosophical leaders of the tea party - Limbaugh, Hannity, etc.

Destruction of America to have Obama fail is acceptable? We have never seen people at a crisis point literally walk out of negotiations so often. Eliminating government welfare to the rich is not even negotiable. That is not negotiation. That is an ultimatum.

Nobody thought that default was realistic. But then we have never had a Congress so full of extremists attached only to their political agendas. Who for ten years have created a recession using tax cuts and welfare to the rich. I am reevaluating this situation to avert financial losses. If the rich do not pay their fair share, then government debts cannot be solved. So many would rather harm America than do what obviously must be done.

"We want Obama to fail" means failure of America is acceptable. Any damage is acceptable as long as the political agenda is protected. Congress has a serious shortage of moderates. Congress has too many wacko extremists. The worst damage will be created by people (tea party members) who openly and gleefully say default is accptable (ie Michele Bachmann). After all, only their political agenda is relevant.

The amazing thing to me is what a weak bunch of self promoters these guys are. They pretend they are the heirs of the founding fathers, you know, the guys that assumed almost $80 million in debt with a population of 4 million, but really both parties seem to be adopting incompatible aspects of both Hamilton and Jefferson. It is time to cut spending and raise revenues. To continue down the path toward default means higher interest rates on the debt, more nothing for something. I've always felt that our governmental system was bloated, but could be addressed through honest methods. Deficit reduction of 1/3 revenue 2/3 spending cuts would be an honest start and start the discussion before election on how to do the rest.

Do you remember when we invaded Iraq? As Saddam was removed from power, the resulting void was filled with chaos, Shiites and Sunnis all trying to battle each other for a superior position in the coming government. Some were retaliating for previous offenses, perpetuating blood feuds. There were killings, kidnappings, bombings, threats, deceit. The voices that wanted the best for the country were drowned out or just drowned. We see the same thing in Afghanistan today. We see the same thing in Washington D.C. today.

The overriding loyalty to one's tribe, over and above all else is what we're seeing here. Well, that an just bone stupid too. That's a scary combination. To hear someone in a position of some power, some influence like Michelle Bachmann say that the debt ceiling doesn't matter, that the right course is to NOT raise it is simply dangerous ingnorance. That angers and scares me. But to hear talk like we're gonna make sure Obama has just one term and this is a golden opportunity to make him look bad, to contribute to his failure, thereby increasing our chances to look better by comparison so we can be elected in the next election. Words fail me. Callow, cowardly, selfish.

Our elected federal leaders have been chosen to make decisions and take actions about what is best for our country. The blatant loyalty to party / ideals / owners *above* loyalty to the Constitution and the good of the county MAKES ME SICK. Their oath was to the Constitution, not to their tribe.

I heard on the radio that there's a possibility the US troops won't get paid? How can that even be a possibilty ffs?

that's true, Dana. People living on social security (grandma, disabled, nursing home patients, etc,) may not get paid, either, making it impossible for them to pay the most basic of bills (rent, food) This country is kicking the most vunerable and the ones in harms way to the curb to make sure Obama fails. it is truly sickening and I think it's about time for a revolution.


The hysteria of white America to this president is completely nutty.

How about "treasonous".

Word.

didn't you get Ann Coulter's memo?

Only liberals are treasonous.

There have been previous government shutdowns due to budget battles going beyond annual budget due dates; but, I don't think there's been a delay in the military getting paid since about 1980. Means exist to get the military paid on time, even before a new budget is approved, should the politicians choose to do so rather than betray the military's trust for political leverage.

There's a worryngly nihilistic tone to some of this.

If military personnel don't get paid, they can recoup their loses in goods and services by selling off government property and pressing members of Congress into service as comfort girls. I'm sure some GI would take John Boehner and buttfuck him in the mouth: it's probably better with the ones that cry.

I, too, believe our troops should and will be paid on time.

What I have NOT heard is one voice saying this exercise has been worthwhile. I add these caveats, no voice that isn't maneuvering for political advantage. Just regular citizen voices. None I've heard say that this is a good idea, we'll show them. No voice has said cuts only to rein in our spending. No one has said changing the tax rules to eliminate exemptions for the well off, *so they pay more*, is a bad idea. No one I read or listen to says this argument should be repeated before the next election. Each side has labored to make a spectacular show of failure (a show only, none want to die) so they can loudly proclaim how the other has acted "treasonously".

Only the politicos want this shit.

And, though there are (whispering) optimistic reports coming from Washington at the moment, the only one of these conditions that is breaking in favor of the citizens I circulate among is that the deal that *might* get worked out will be sufficient to postpone the next battle royale until after the next election.

What I've seen is the accumulation of talking points. There has been on both sides a deliberate, conscious effort to do things that will serve, in the coming election, as evidence, as unassailable truth, for their claims of purity, fidelity, honesty, superiority. You have all borne witness to these actual events. Remember! Fix in your mind *now* what's been happening and compare for yourself the self-serving events of the recent debacle and compare them to the hyper-patriotic claims to come. Prepare to be dazzled by the gap.

Both sides have been gathering ammunition--no, planting ammunition seeds. Seeds that will bear bitter, poisonous fruit force fed to everyone with a television, a radio, eyeballs, ears... a pulse. We're all going to be inundated with it, we'll be drowning in this shit. And who will want to open their mouth to say something reasonable when they're swimming in shit? No one. This is how those with an extremist agenda (tm--tw) gain and hold power.

Change is required. Pain is inevitable.

Why was the limit raided so many times during other presidents tenures, yet this pres wants it to be raised and the issue put away till after the election? That is different than all those other times. The current situation is vastly different than all those other times.

This is more than political. We have hit the wall, again - Change is required. Pain is inevitable.

And Bri, the color of this pres has nothing to do with this issue to about 99% of the people and ZERO to all the rational ones. Please take your race card and stuff it.

FTFY
I read that as "Palin is inevitable" and threw up in my mouth a ittle.

Class, you live in the northeast. In the northeast, Obama's race is not the issue. In toomany other areas of the country, and too many other subcultures, his race is a huge issue.

Actually if history teaches us anything, it's that soldiers and vetrans get screwed over once the war is over.

Oh it most certainly IS an issue in many regions and ideologies. Uppity black man!! :eek:

Those means have been in use just to keep the government running since we went over the debt limit. The August 2 date isn't when we go over the limit - that date is long past - it's when the Treasury thinks it will no longer be able to shuffle money around to put off not paying bills.

Ewwww - me too.

Well then we should just bomb them all.

No, let's give them a dark tan, a fat lip and a perm. ;)

wai.... wha?

Take all the people who have an issue with Obama due to his race and make them African American.;)

Ohhh well thats just rapier, rapist... RACIST!

Seriously though. It seems that many times people who disagree with him are accused of doing so because of his skin color.
Thats just bullshit and a lame excuse IMO. But if you say its so in other areas or whatever, thats fine. I have only seen the racist assholes on facebook articles. Apparently I don't frequent with those types of people much.

So they did it. They reached a debt limit agreement. They slashed the budget. And now they can smile and go off on vacation with a sense of accomplishment. Job well done, right?

We won't mention that they left the partial FAA shutdown in effect, and as a result, it will cost the government about a billion dollars in uncollected airline ticket taxes during their month long vacation.

Have a great vacation!

Plus, the dreaded "uncertainty" that is causing the "job creators" to not create jobs has been extended to the end of the year, for "super congress" to deal with.

The thing is, and I am well aware I am a little lost in the field of economics, but haven't most western economists been suggesting that severe spending cuts at this stage may retard recovery?

The IMF has argued that the cuts over in Britain may be too great and may be rolling out too fast, and are advising our government to keep a close eye on the situation in case the cuts damage recovery.

Uncertainty? What a fucking canard. So subjective, so omnipresent, so nebulous. There will always be uncertainty, yet, somehow, we manage to have an economy. The real borrowing cost has been functionally zero for over two years, yet the growth hasn't resulted from the that certainty. And if uncertainty is bad for business, and if the pols have the best interest of business growth in mind, how then can they justify CREATING THE VERY CONDITION OF UNCERTAINTY THEY CLAIM IS THE BIGGEST OBSTACLE TO MORE GROWTH AND MORE JOBS?

Of course they can't. They can't. Facts and logic don't fucking matter anymore. I can't compete, I can't function in a make it up as you go along world like this.

yeah? so?

Good point.

Permit Keith Olbermann to restate my thoughts:



I need a transcript of this. I want to print it up, like a Desiderata of furious disgust at the actions of our elected officials. Public servants? PTUI! Turn the volume UP.

Hear hear

I saw that this morning as well. First time I think I ever agreed with him about anything.


@glatt - Looks like Obama is gonna take care of the FAA situation himself.

If it were up to me, all the FAA employees would be OFF the job until this was resolved. When air travel grinds to a halt, congress will get it's ass back to Washington to resolve it, guaranteed.

well, stormie, what makes you think the air traffic controllers would be less noble and altruistic than the safety inspectors? They seem to have put dedication to principle above loyalty to tribe by performing their jobs without pay. That is noble dedication.

I think controllers are still getting paid.

Aren't they the ones that aren't allowed to strike?

controllers are still getting paid, they're considered essential workers. my question was more along the line of "if all were furloughed, why wouldn't the controllers be as dedicated to their jobs as the safety inspectors who are still doing their work, but without pay.

There's a fine line between noble dedication and being a doormat.

If the inspectors (and anyone else caught in political maneuverings who aren't getting paid) refuse to work without a paycheck, then maybe it would matter enough to Congress to actually make an effort to find a solution instead of bolting off on vacation.

This has nothing to do with a strike, it's Congress refusing to agree on a budget or allowing a funding extension for the FAA. And our government is losing millions, maybe even billions, in tax revenues due to the shutdown. How hypocritical to claim austerity needs and bray about spending cuts when their own actions are costing our country a shit ton of money.

As long as people let politicians walk all over them, then they're gonna get walked all over.

Washington Post article

They'll be complaining about the spike in unemployment that they cause, too.

Never forget that all here read what was going to happen when these problems was being promoted by lies in 2002. Kennedy tax cuts hyped as if economic salvation. So, due to those tax cuts, the American average income has dropped 2%. Due to those and other money games, we now have massive unemployment and economic calamity. Including massive debts to pay for those tax cuts. Warning were bluntly posted with examples from history back in early 2000s. Welcome to reality.

Never forget that all here read what was going to happen when lies called Mission Accomplished were being promoted in 2003. Mission Accomplished is doing exactly what was predicted when the problem was being promoted by lies in 2003. Due to a war intentionally promoted by lies (ie America does not do nation building), we now have massive unemployment and economic calamity. Including massive debts now being paid and still to be paid for that war. Warnings were bluntly posted with examples from history back in 2003. Welcome to reality.

Most never remember back more than two years. We now pay for Mission Accomplished, tax cuts, the intentional stifling of science and innovation, deregulating industries that are traditionally the most corrupt, welfare that Republicans especially love, unrestricted purchasing of politicians, protecting corruption (ie Enron, CA energy crisis), and "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter".

How much worse could it be? Remember, the wacko extremists (now called a tea party) wanted to divest Social Security into the stock market? Why does most everyone now forget that? Many want to forget how easily wacko extremist propaganda can tell them how to think. Wacko extremists said government regulations subvert economic growth. So we believed it. Everywhere that regulations were reduced or eliminated or not implemented (Basil 2, hedge funds, accounting rules, SEC), we now have major recession, world record fraud, and companies that went running to government for protection. Warnings were bluntly posted with examples from history back in 2000s. Welcome to reality. Because we were all as smart as George Jr.

All lights were flashing red. He even had a memo on his desk warning of the attack. Our extremists did nothing to avert that attack. And did not make any decisions on 11 September 2001. We actually called them leaders? Yes because so many of us are told how to think rather than think.

What idiot would think investing Social Security in the stock market was smart? Welcome to the resulting reality.

Why do we no longer have a manned space program? Because the same wacko extremists (tea party types) did what any George Jr would do. Spend money on 'defective when proposed' Orion, Ares, and Constellation. Do anything but innovate. Advocate a ridiculous Man to Mars. Useless space vehicles created by extremists with only a political agenda - American leaders in early 2000s. Welcome to reality. This is how we pay for those decisions.

How many people are still so dumb as to not admit how easily liars and extremists had them manipulated? Those same scumbags would rather default the American government rather than learn an extremist agenda is the problem.

Many are so stupid dumb as to still not realize how massive government loans (Tarp) literally saved the American economy for a mess created by the dumbest people in early 2000s.

Disasters created when fools recommend tax cuts; Mission Accomplished; vehicles with 1968 technology engines; economic experts who are only stock brokers and MBAs; contempt for our allies; torture and extraordinary rendition; subverting of stem cell, environmental, quantum physics, and other sciences in the name of glory or political agendas; axis of evil; religion with political agendas (that even protects pedophiles); more children left behind; and everything in terms of left verses right.

If responsible, we slash our military across the board by 30+% since that is how economically diminished we have become. Responsible spending cuts will be necessary to hurt all Americans harshly because the wealth will no longer be there. One need only view the education numbers to see what we can afford in 20 years. Or view where the world's science is moving to get away from our wacko extremists.

Whereas the future in 1950 was the transistor, the future today is quantum physics. Today so few understand sciences as to now realize why the world's future - research in quantum physics - is moving to places such as Cern. So many are so foolish dumb as to even deny global warming. America now invests more in jails and extremist propaganda institutions. Economics today is traceable to decisions made ten years ago when these problems were being created by Rush Limbaugh / Sarah Palin / George Jr type extremists.

How dumb are these people? They even created the Constellation space program - because "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter". So separated from science as to think a Man on Mars is good science. So extremist as to only understand what had already been done - ie Apollo. We are now paying for an America when it was run by extremists.

These FAA problems are directly traceable to what extremists did after 2000. And by the same extremist agenda that stiil refuses to admit why we now have these problems. It was the same right wing extremist mindset that resulted in the famous expression, "We have met the enemy. And he is us".

:corn:

I just caught up on this FAA / airport stuff.

Jebus #$%&ing Christ, congress, get you shit together.

I would have to agree. It would change behavior much more quickly.

S and P has downgraded the rating of US Treasury bonds from AAA to AA+.

They say it is because they don't believe our government will get its act together enough to take care of our financial promises.

Two bond rating agencies downgraded Italy's government bonds. So another wacko extremist (Berlusconi) had the cops raid both company's offices.

Berlusconi has only done what extremists in America also did so many years ago. Running up debts so that the debts never appear on any spread sheet. Today we are paying for our year 2000+ wakcos. Italy has yet to start paying for their wacko who is still in power. The Euro is in major crisis especially when the EU’s #3 largest economy is that fiscally irresponsible.

Ironically, even Chavez in Venezuela has been more responsible than Berlusconi.

Is that something you can prove by the numbers, tw? Because the only man I can think of more irresponsible than Hugo Chavez is Barack Obama. Not much to choose between either as to wacko extremism; they are birds of a feather.

Slanted political view, but one I happen to agree with...

S&P Drops U.S. Credit Rating to AA+ // Obama and Reid’s Crowning Achievement

http://legalinsurrection.com/2011/08...=Google+Reader

This guy nails it...

He still fails to mention the tax rate is lower than it has been in the past half century, and that the reason the tax cuts were set to expire was that even the conservatives that voted for them 10 years ago realized what a ticking time bomb they were.

He specifically cites the Democrats agenda, but is completely unwilling to mention the Republicans intransigence on any revenue, be it letting tax cuts expire or removing the most egregious loopholes.

or...

republicans are responsible for the downgrade. they bent over for the democrats and were and are their bitches, refusing to do their duty to America. they let themselves be ordered around, feckless and clueless, they lost the argument and they'll lose the elections to come.

Is that shit helpful? Really? The WHOLE "article" is just four sentences, they add nothing.

Interesting tidbit of the day: Standard and Poor's is a division of McGraw Hill. Feel free to connect any dots you find important.

No, Really? :lol:

What am I missing? Where are the dots? :confused:

I don't know about the S & P/McGraw Hill conspiracy, but I do know that anyone who refuses to make payments on his debts is going to have his credit rating reduced. The US should not be surprised to be held to a similar standard.

There's a saying that a people get the government they deserve. I don't know that it's especially true, but at this point, the Teabaggers certainly have the government they deserve. I cannot believe how irresponsible Congress has been, playing the party line and idealogies to the complete detriment of the nation. The right wing has been the worst culprit in this by their refusal to re-instate taxes. They are like children who want something for nothing, and everything and everyone in this nation from education to the military to seniors to children suffer as a result.

Pfffft! :angry:

McGraw Hill is invested very heavily in the Republican backed NCLB. They sell the textbooks and the standardized tests that the books teach to. They are very tight with the Bush family and Harold McGraw is a Romney supporter. To view them as neutral observers is a mistake even if their conclusion to down-grade is reasonable. Also remember that these are the same birds who gave a AAA rating to mortgage backed securities.

Thank you. I knew McGraw Hill is a text book publisher, but didn't realize that it also publishes the S & P and lives in the Republican's back pockets. Jeez, wheels within wheels.