Welcome, Sam!
Don't think of Bush as a true conservative. He was not. And yeah, he lied badly to us about the war, but I knew that before we started it. I'm not sad to see Saddam gone (and his sons), but the lies I won't forgive Bush for - and for his over-spending, and stopping most stem cell research.

We probably needed a Homeland Security, but not the behemoth of agencies we have in it. We needed a patriot act, but not the removal of so many of our rights.

Halliburton is a tough call, because you can't get many companies to do, what Halliburton did, on such short notice, and on that massive a scale, in a country where the employees are likely to be mortared and shot at.

Lowering taxes, can also increase the velocity of money in the private sector, which can bring in MORE tax income to the gov't. I know it's non-intuitive, but it can happen. Depends on the situation.

Of course, the defense contractors were in bed with Cheney, he was the former Secretary of Defense, during Desert Storm. Nobody knew more about what the military would need in Iraq, than Cheney. Like him or not, he knew his stuff -- which Bush needed.

There were a few, but the BIGGEST figures, were politicians, and of course, they never go to jail for being stupid liars.
A few did go to jail, but the biggest impact has been the suit against the big banks. Bank of America bought out Countrywide (which was a HUGE source of sub prime mortgages), and now the feds are just beginning their suit for 1 Billion dollars, but which will extend to cover civil claims as well, apparently.

Reuters claims BofA, Countrywide and it's subsidiaries accounted for a total of 57 Billion dollars in toxic loans!!
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...89N17120121024

Several banks have already settled similar suits.

Sure. All started with the Free Trade Agreement, IIRC, way back when. Trade treaties since then have extended it, like NAFTA.

It has the plus that we can buy a lot of stuff, very cheaply, but the downside is, we lose our manufacturing jobs -- gone.

Yes, it's like a work camp in the Gulag - but with high tech products.

By definition, it is free trade, but "free" means something entirely different to a Communist country.
Support your argument that Romney objects to car parts being made here. You lost it there, Sam. Simply a lie.

I agree that we need serious election reform, to remove the big $$$$'s from whether a candidate can run a successful campaign or not, for office.

I've been through several big earthquakes. FEMA was never around when you needed them. They are swamped by anything big, immediately, and pretty useless, actually.

Learn to rely on yourself and your friends and community, in an emergency. Don't be dependent on the gov't! They won't probably be there.

Social safety net programs, account for 13% of our entire budget?

Really?? You're off the track again, Sam! (will cover in a subsequent post, this one is getting way too long already).
A lot of Republicans aren't conservative. They are "whatever's", they need to be, to be elected, and they live in a conservative part of the country.

Both Bush Presidents were that way - not conservative, and not pragmatic in many ways. The worst was the lie to drag us into Iraq, and then to keep us supporting Iraq and Afghanistan for 10 years.

We can't afford to be doing that.

A perverse liar (ie the worst example of a politician) completely ignores the point. You again demonstrate how a Tea Party Limbaugh supporter thinks . Despicable.

Romney said he was more liberal than Ted Kennedy. Since lying to yourself, you must ignore that reality. Even take cheap shots at Kennedy.

An honest reply without a cheapshot attitude means you explain why Romney even said he was more liberal than Ted Kennedy. A liar does what a liar must do. Ignore that fact. Take cheapshots. Even call benchmark conservatives (ie Lugar) a liberal.

When do we see calls for internment camps for Muslims? We now have a new benchmark for liar. You. Or would you instead explain why Romney said he was more liberal than Ted Kennedy? I doubt it. Please prove me wrong by answering the again posted question, as any honest person would.

I am in complete agreement with you here!

What? You can't get many companies to rake in money hand over fist while taking advantage of insider favoratism?


Please name names. I have studied this subject intensively and have yet to come across a report of ANYONE actually called to account for their criminal activities. I would be heartened if even one of those scoundrels had to be responsible for his actions. I eagerly await your reply. Really

Oh?

Romney’s stance on bailing out the Ohio auto industry has been extremely controversial with each party offering different versions of Romney’s stance at the time. This is what the Washington Post had to say on the subject:


Honey, this ain’t my first rodeo either. My current cynicism regarding the government knows no bounds. Most of the members here know that I suffer from a disability which prevents me from working in my old profession and makes it difficult for me to train for different employment. Anyhow, I eventually had no choice but to go on SSDI disability. The amount I get is so small that I must depend on a housing voucher for my apartment and I get my medical treatment through Medicaid. And I have made some progress. But without help – well, forget it.

My case is not an isolated one. Many Americans are living in situations like mine. The private funds are just not available to help us. Churches, etc. lend what assistance they can but it’s only a bit here and there.

Now I have a question for you that I would be very interested in getting a serious thoughtful answer to. Here it is:

Take a population which is already suffering from a severe disability or illness – traumatic brain injury, advanced MS, quadriplegics, etc. Now turn those people out of their homes to deal with the elements as best they can. Imagine how a quadriplegic or a brain injured person will deal with a drunk with a knife at a homeless shelter. Imagine how quickly a person with schizophrenia will go downhill without their medication. Think about an individual who is already severely ill being faced with the specter of malnourishment and hunger on a daily basis.

Really think about such people. Imagine what they face. What do you think their ultimate fate will be? Cause and effect. Many of these people will die. They will die on the streets and allies and behind the municipal buildings in our cities.

In rural areas they will dies quickly from exposure since few shelters are available in rural America. Some will make rough camps and die there. Some will die in their cars on some lonely dirt road. I am not being dramatic. I have 2 college degrees – one in biology. I know very well what will happen to a population of deer or small mammals or lynx or whatever that is subjected to a similar situation/environment.

So, what is your value system? Does human life matter to you, or would you rather stride through America’s cities as you might those of Brasil – stepping over the sick and dying? Or do you want to look for alternative solutions? Raise taxes on the wealthy even just by 5%
Better than nothing. Get rid of wasteful defense spending. Did you know that almost every military installation both here and abroad had a well manicured golf course? Do we really need frills like that? And Halliburton was the ONLY firm chosen to bid on US defense contracts at the time of the Iraq War. Why not throw the bidding open to all? Isn’t competition what America is supposed to be all about? Might just save some money while we’re at it.

Unfortunately, I am pessimistic about many of the American people and especially our politicians of both parties. A while back a crowd at a Republican rally actually applauded at the thought of people without health insurance just being left to die. Are we headed for social Darwinism? Wouldn’t surprise me.

Meanwhile, I’ve been collecting official military manuals on survival, escape, and evasion in a variety of conditions. Interesting stuff.


The 13% figure for gov’t spending I gave is correct. Check the link provided.

Adek doesn't respond to this sort of request.
But here is one to warm the cockles of your heart.

[skip forward to about 0:45 and to 1:15 sec]

Thanks, Lamplighter. I guess that's something. But "flawed thinking"? Those financial criminals were thinking just fine - "Hey! We could rake in billions if we just fudge a few little numbers here and there and maybe over there..." And then the bastards got end of year bonuses! Incredible! :mad2:

The biggest fish in the sub prime market was Countrywide Financial Services. They were *unbelievable*.

Their founder and CEO was Angelo Mozilo, and he was fined 67.5Million by the SEC, but because of an indemnity clause in his contract, BankofAmerica (which bought Countrywide), will have to pay some part of that amount.

By agreeing to that, he avoided a trial, and they never went after him for fraud (which carries up to a long 30 year sentence in Federal law for business fraud), and a fine.

A guy in Florida went to prison (he caused the nations sixth largest bank to collapse). A few others as well are listed here:
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient...w=1280&bih=653

You are correct on the Fedral welfare percentage IF you don't include Social Security - which is both money that people have earned, and also money that they are receiving unearned. (or welfare ). So the percentage varies between 11% at the lowest, to about 30% at the highest, depending on what you call "Welfare".

Another thought came to me as I was looking that up: "What about the Farming subsidies?". if a farmer is paid NOT to grow a crop. Is that welfare? Technically no, but realistically, yes.

In any case, looking even at the lower figures, it's easy to see from this graph, that our percentage of welfare spending is increasing at an alarming rate. Obama care will increase that dramatically - but again, only part of it will be welfare, the rest will be paid for.

Attachment 41436

Good discussion Sam, but we need to keep our posts shorter. I had to edit out quite a bit, just to fit the last big post of mine, in under the forum limit.

Wait! What? A forum limit? When did that happen? I though you could just post away until anyone who chanced to glance at what you wrote fell over sideways at their desk from boredom. Or else their computer froze on the NSFW site just as the boss wandered in. But what do I know? Oh, I did learn how to build a snare for a rabbit out of my Marine Survival Handbook. Those jar heads are pretty clever. Hope I can meet up with some when the time comes. :elkgrin: Hey! We need a rabbit smilie. Guess this elk head will have to do until we get one.

That's because you aren't a Mormon.

There has always been a 10,000 character limit per post.

@SamIam: Knock off the names, or the conversation is just bull shit name calling.

This is crap, of course. This was earlier in the campaign, when all the newspapers were solidly Obama fans.

Of course they hated Romney's take on it, because it hurt the Unions, who now are the owners of GM, along with the Feds. What a surprise, eh?

A guy like Romney will want the business to go through bankruptcy, and get restructured, and come out a stronger company. I have not however, heard Romney say what his own preferences would have been for GM. Romney couldn't have any impact on it, anyway. It was Obama's decision to make.

Rescuing GM was the EASIEST political decision, ever made. That's usually the problem with these kinds of decisions. No one wants to see the anguish of doing something RIGHT, so they do the EASY, and then it winds up being a short cut - you know, like the one the Donner party took, over the Sierra Mtns. :eek: :eek:

I'm quite a fan and proud owner of GM trucks over the years, but I doubt I'll buy another one.

You want a sharp contrast? Contrast the oil and gas drilling going on in Ohio, on private land, with the oil and gas drilling in Ohio that Obama will allow, on Federal land. The US would be a bigger producer of oil and gas, than Saudi Arabia, IF Obama would quit blocking it.

Yeah, I know. Members of the Mormon Church around here get all sorts of help when they need it. I was thinking of converting, but I think I have to attain the status of Celestial Being or something before I could get on the REAL goodies the Mormons hand out. Either that or become some old fart's 9th wife. Henry VIII should have had it so good.

How many pages is 10,000 characters?

Just write what you want and if it's more than 10k it will tell you, also it will tell how big it is. Then you split it into two posts and you're good to go.

What names? Jar Heads? Bastards? Grasshopper?:confused:

Gang of Four? Crooked?

Wow! I'm really, really sorry to have used such language. The mods should have banned me by now.

Hey, wait till you read a post by Urbane Guerilla! You'll adore HIS vocabulary!

This is VERY cynical stuff. Of course human life matters to me. What a question to ask!

You can tax the rich until they're absolutely broke and destitute, and it won't allow our politicians to spend all the money they want to spend. They buy votes, by spending our money, you see. "You want a bridge to nowhere? Sure, the Feds will buy you one - but be sure to vote for me come November!"

Is that what you want? You want a monetary crisis on the US dollar? You want to see inflation (which will be coming around eventually), ripping apart everybody on fixed incomes?

Because that's where we're headed.

I don't know where you got the idea that Conservatives would have this kind of calamity for the poor and disabled, but you have it quite twisted around.

Because after the liberals spend us into oblivion, they'll be the first one's to jump freely over your lifeless corpse, as they scramble for some crust of bread to eat.

Liberals care a lot about helping the poor. Conservatives care a lot about helping people, NOT become or stay, poor.

Halliburton had a hard job, and they could NOT fail. As a former CEO, Cheney could make Halliburton jump through the air and do a double back flip, at the same time. He knows all the officers and the guys and gals to go to, to get things expedited RIGHT NOW.

I'm not sure any other company could have done what Halliburton did, in that same time frame, in Iraq. I don't blame Halliburton - they performed well, under trying conditions. And i don't blame Cheney, since OF COURSE, he knew exactly how to get things done with them. It was expensive, but we knew it would be. Heaven knows, you can't work in Iraq, on the cheap. We saw lots of contractors who were killed even though they had bodyguards, didn't we?

Normally, I'd say yes, it certainly should have been bid out, but in the time frame we had for Iraq, I believe it might have been necessary.

However, I am not even aware of all the services that Halliburton supplied for the military and contractor personnel in Iraq. And is there some reference point for comparing the cost of supplying those services, in a war zone like Iraq?

I don't have that info. Without it, how can anyone make a comparison? So I choose to reserve judgment on Halliburton in Iraq.

Oh, people can use all the foul language they want, but they'll just get mostly the same from me.

So what good can come of that, really?

But but but before you edited your post you said it was 'honey' that you considered name calling.

:lol2:

Come on schmoopy lovie-kins sweetie-pie...give me the same back. I'm starved for affection. Starved, I tell you.

I need some affection handouts.

And a good psychiatrist. :rolleyes:

Thank gawd you're here! Politician! Physician! Psychiatrist! You're the EveryProfessional!

But right now I'd really like some advice on my haircolor. I like the current color, but I'm thinking of adding some highlights. The problem is my hair grows so fast that I would have to pay all that money every 3 weeks, instead of doing it myself for ten bucks. (I mean, it's L'Oreal, and I AM worth it...)

Later, I have some etiquette issues to pick your brain about. I'm attending a Regatta Gala and I'm not sure of the appropriate attire. ;)

Well I don't use foul language. I simply ask why Romney once called himself more liberal that Ted Kennedy. And got a completely irrelevant relpy from you that made no sense. And that completely ignored the question. Why is Romney more liberal that Kennedy when you seem to think he is conservative? Or does Romney routinely lie?

Do you think you might stop avoiding the question? Or does the Tea Party not have an answer?

Ask Mitt, when he's in the White House. ;)

Here's a question for you:

Why did Obama ignore Ambassador Stevens request for help, and leave our Ambassador, and two CIA agents, to be killed by Al Qaeda affiliates?

This is the President you want to put your faith into for health care? He abandons an Ambassador and three decorated soldiers working for the CIA, under attack in a foreign country, and you believe he's going to give a shit about YOU? :eek::eek:

Not after election day, he won't.

Oh honey baby, it'll be OK.

You know what's funny about this? Looking back at my wild college years, not one self-professed Conservative Republican (like law students) was worth a damn shit in bed. It was like fucking a dispassionate grubworm. A couple half-hearted grunts and a "I got mine...you get yours."

No wonder I gave up on that ilk and leaned towards the bleeding heart liberal starving artists...they knew how to LIVE. :lol:

*This foul language was brought to you by the letter F and the number 47.

So liberals take "nice guys finish last" to a new level?

;)

(you all know, of course, I'm kidding. A little levity. Though, still, I can't remember any...oh never mind.)

Sam, you are my hero!

@ Adak -

First of all I apologize for my rather bealated reply. I have been checking out winter survival gear, deciding on the purchase of a mummy sleeping bag good down to zero degrees F. - or so the label claims.

Now where was I? Oh!

Look here. If you are going to affiliate yourself with an organization - epecially a political one - you need to understand the values and goals espoused by groups that make up significant numbers of the members in the movement with which you have decided to support.

This would allow you to spare us your act of outraged innocence when you are questioned regarding some of the more outrageous actions carried out by your fellows.

In addition,you want to tell me to believe what you say and ignore what you do ("You" being conservatives). How can you expect that I or anyone else will be able to respond with anything EXCEPT cynicism?

There are endless sources which set forth the Tea Party dominated Republican Party's attitudes and plans for those programs which make up the (larely inadequate) social safety net currently in place in this country. Go read Ryan's proposed budget. Take a look at the explanations of Republican idealogy widely published all over the Internet, discussed constantly by reporters for every major news outlet, and gushing forth from Fox every time you are unfortunate enought to land your TV clicker on it channel. I'm not going to fill up this entire thread with the thousands of links to this information.

Instead, I will just mention a single incident that occurred a little over a year ago and which you would have had to be lying brain dead in a hospital bed to avoid knowing about. I refer of course to a moment from the Republican debates sponsored by the Tea Party in Septemper of 2011:

There were a zillion stories that came out about just what makes a human life valuable in the eyes of the Right wing, as well as the fate the unworthy among us should be subjected to.

Yahoo News had as good as coverage as any:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/a...163216817.html

:reaper:

Hug and kiss Halliburten if you want. While I feel pretty disgusted by their antics, right now I am more concerned about whether I and every other low income disabled person will have our housing taken by Romney, so that the 4% of the National Budget that goes to housing vouchers can be re-directed to an already bloated defense fund which currently devours 20% of all government spending. Sounds logical to me.

Ron Paul is a nut extremist. He is a doctor, and he has some excellent comments about our Federal Reserve Banking system, BUT when it comes to anything else - He's a whack job.

And will never be elected Pres or VP, for that reason. Yes, he has his followers - in his own way he's a charismatic guy - but he's whacked. We had to put him into the primary debate, because he had enough support, in those first few states. He REALLY concentrated on them, because he knew he'd be toast afterward.

Don't even think about judging the Tea Party or Republicans, or Conservatives, by looking at guys like Ron Paul. You ignore Ron Paul, and I'll ignore your Maxine Waters, OK? :D

This is what we commonly see with the social welfare programs run by the gov't:
http://www.nber.org/bah/fall06/w12436.html

It's not that helping the needy is something we don't want to do, but this kind of half-assed approach that the politicians come up with, just gets played by lots of perfectly healthy people. I know two who qualified for this one, myself - nothing wrong with them. They just learned how to play the system, and the first guy, taught the second one, how to do it.

Looking at Obamacare, I see one great problem with it:

1) they allowed companies to opt out or not require it at all. So after supporting it to the skies when it was a bill, all the largest employer's have opted out of it, already, now that it's a law.

That reduces our economy of quantity considerably, and shifts the costs (including the fixed costs of starting it), onto far fewer patients.

If we're going to have a nationalized health care system (and I hope we do), we need a smarter one. Why not study the good and bad points of the other countries who have it, and use that as a template for our own?

A tax hike for that, I would support - but not for something where people are not included - that's just nuts. Everybody means everybody, and if it's not for everybody, then it should be for nobody.










[/quote]

I was beginning to seriously wonder if Adak was my older son (who is a flip-flop Republican but, honestly, I just think he wants to be on which ever team 'wins') but now I don't think he is.

My son doesn't own a truck. BUT HIS DAD DOES!

I've got a mummy bag that's rated to 20 or something like that, but it starts getting uncomfortably cold when it's in the high 30s. Enough so you have trouble sleeping. So I bring a lightweight fleece blanket that I use as an extra layer inside the mummy bag. It helps considerably. Also, when it's that cold, you really need a foam pad to sleep on. An inflatable air mattress is too cold. You can always put the foam pad on top of an air mattress.

That's only one problem, there are many others from my perspective. But with the power of the Drug/Medical Appliance companies, Health Care conglomerates, AMA, and Insurance Company's, sway on K Street, great compromises had to be made or it would never happen... ever.
Hopefully, with enough push from the public, it will be improved until it's what we should have.

Yes, all the lobbyists and PAC's and such, are a significant barrier to progress. We've got to get some serious election reform underway.

Never going to see THAT from a conservative, Adak. Never.

I actually find Ron Paul rather amusing and I don't care who does or does not pay attention to Maxine Waters. I judge the Tea Party, etc. by their actions. I reserve my harshest judgments for folks like the ones who cheer for people without health insurance to be just left to die. The Tea Party did that and I hold them in the lowest possible regard with absolutely no apology for the judgments I have made about this group of sub-humans, .


Anyhow, in summation: Uncle Sugar is handing out goodies left and right to undeserving shirkers and whiners just as we all suspected.

Apparently this journalistic news flash was pulled off by a couple of unemployed, former auto workers whose jobs were outsourced by Bain Investments to the NO TICKEE, NO TICKEE FEVER plant located in the outer part of Inner Mongolia. Shortly after the loss of their jobs, these two patriots both lost their homes to a sub prime lending outfit which needed to give out 11 million $$$ bonuses to their CEO’s that year.

Out of desperation, our two heroes whom I shall refer to as Moe and Curly, then decided to try their luck in the field of yellow journalism. The happy go lucky folks at Tea Bag Research Services gave Moe and Curly their first big break with an assignment to write a scholarly article about why every disabled person in the US should be left to die because everyone loved the idea and thought it was hilarious. Moe and Curl’s research would be published in the Journal of Irreproducible Results, a scientific publication with a wide readership among the illiterates residing in the so-called “Red States.”

However, even with this auspicious beginning, our two aspiring writers might never have made it into the annals of literary history. Although both had plenty of mistaken information, wouldn’t have known the truth even if it were spoken to them in tongues by a blue tick hound, and both men harbored enough prejudices and resentments to fill all the sheets of a phalanx of ku klux klan members; neither Moe nor Curly could type and Moe could barely even print. How would they ever be able to place their opus before an eagerly awaiting world?

All I can say is that thank FSM, the US has yet to outsource its methamphetamine labs to China. One night a friendly if toothless chemist wandered into the bar where Moe and Curly were drinking jello shots and trying to master the Palmer method on a number of crumpled bar napkins. Upon learning of the historic task facing the two jello drinkers (and managing to avoid thinking of Jim Jones), the chemist offered them the use of his old Underwood Typewriter that he kept for a doorstop on the step of his trailer/meth production facility located a mere 5 miles from town over 27 miles of rutted, winding dirt road. Moe and Curly accepted the offer at once, pulled off three all nighters and had all but the last 2 pages of their study typed up when the meth lab blew up and left the kindly chemist disabled for life. Fortunately for him, the local sheriff slammed him in the joint before the chemist had so much as a chance of even THINKING of going on disability.

Isn’t it nice how all that goes well, ends well?

And I do have a point in writing all this drivel besides just amusing myself. I could have quoted verbatim some of the more fantastic parts of Adak’s favorite link and the link within the link. I could have pointed out a number of scientific fallacies that were presented as truth by the writers of those diatribes against the disabled and against providing us with any assistance. I could have thrown in a bunch of sociological and psychological facts and included reams of my own experience and the experiences of other disabled Americans I know whose misfortune it is to seek help from the Feds.

But the Adaks of the world already have their minds made up. And a rather large segment of US society is still simply unwilling to look honestly at what has and is unfolding in this country. Times are not the best and when you need someone to blame in bad times, why not blame people who are poor because how dare they be poor in the “land of opportunity”?

This last actual comment I will make a legitimate response to after all:

These comments make me want to take back everything I wrote earlier and embarque on a 20 page rebuttle complete with quotes and citations from every expert imaginable. However. I’ll try. To be. Brief.

When you read Moe and Curly's comments, it’s apparent almost immediately that they have never actually spoken to a real person in need of assistance due to a disability. They can’t even call the program by the correct acronym. It’s not DI, whatever that is. People are either awarded SSI or SSDI. SSI is much like welfare. It is a program for people who were unable to work enough quarters to qualify for SSDI (so much for Moe’s bright idea that people must work x so many years before they can qualify for help). SSDI is very much like the regular Social Security payments most people qualify for at age 66. It is considered EARNED income, paid for out of each paycheck that a worker earns until he retires or becomes disabled before retirement age.

Many people who end up on SSI are ones who suffer from a serious mental illness that prevents them from ever really being able to work. Schizophrenia is a prime example. It often seems to strike young people in high school or college. The symptoms are so profound that it is all the schizophrenic can do to merely survive – never mind hold down a job. You, Moe, and Curly need to leave the Dark Ages behind. Mental illness is very real. It can be very hard to treat. It makes the sufferer’s life almost unbearable at times. It can often prevent him from working no matter how much he may wish otherwise.

The politicians have indeed rigged the game – but not the way you’d like to think. About 70% of all applicants for disability are turned down the first time they apply. There seems to be little rhyme or reason to the decisions. Thus, the system ensures that just the cost of evaluating people will remain high – especially if you make it so you have to evaluate almost everyone twice.

I went through the entire miserable process and was turned down the first time despite the fact that Social Security’s own specialist whom I was required to consult gave me a diagnosis in no uncertain terms of complete disability with almost no chance of improvement – ever. I appealed, everybody on all sides wasted more money, time and paperwork, and when I walked into my hearing with the judge the first thing he did was look at their own doctor’s report on me. The judge read the thing twice, frowned, and told me that I shouldn’t even be here wasting his time. The system should have awarded me disability two years before. I could go home and wait for my paperwork to arrive in the mail in a couple of weeks. Why hadn’t anyone ever bothered to read that doctor’s report before? Beats me. But the mistake favored the government not me and that’s usually how it is for everyone.

I agree that some people do cheat or try to cheat the system. I always hear that , “Well, I know this guy and he’s blah, blah, blah.” I have my doubts. One, the system is actually very, very difficult to cheat. You have to have records and tests out the whazoo from different specialists and even different hospitals. You have that automatic 70% turn down rate, and we’re talking years of fighting Social Security here – not just a few weeks or months. If a person can work, it’s usually easier to just go get a job. I’m in a job training program myself and am chomping at the bit to succeed and get the hell away from the taint of the government. Don’t know if I’ll make it, but I’m trying.

Finally, people are not awarded disability for alcoholism or addiction. In fact, if you are suspected of being an addict, you entire application will be thrown out. But again, if you knew anything about modern medicine, you would know that it’s very common for a person to have a “dual diagnosis.” People who suffer from constant severe pain may get addicted to their pain meds. People who once led useful, self-supportinglives find themselves stuck in a bed or a wheel chair or are quadriplegic. This tends to be a mite depressing. Some folks drink at their depression. And you know what? I drank more alcohol than anyone should in a lifetime during the first 3 years after I was diagnosed. I didn’t even want to live. Then I got a new type of medication, different therapy and I started to feel some hope again. I quit alcohol completely. Don’t be so quick to judge until you’ve been there.

Well fucking said Sam.

most of the alcoholics/addicts I know (plenty) are dual diagnosed. they've been self-medicating for years and get hooked. loads of bipolars, schizoid personalities...it's a real mess. my neighbor, in his late fifties, has had a lifelong seizure disorder- he's wrecked two cars driving to work. He applied for SSDI three years ago. They are having to lawyer up to fight the denials he keeps getting. he worked until he just couldn't work anymore. He's got other health problems -COPD (no, he doesn't smoke) and diabetes and his IQ is somewhere around 80.

He's been denied SSDI even though he managed to work as long as he did.

Adak must be a youngster. They never think anything bad is going to happen to them. What college are you at, Adak? And my apologies if you've already mentioned it and Imissed it

Thanks, Dana! :blush:

I'm retired, and not in the best of health.

@Sam, those cheers were from Ron Paul's camp, designed to show support for Ron. You'll never hear anything like that at a Tea Party rally -- never happen.

If Ron Paul shows up at a debate, and this particular question is asked, then you'll get this chant. The moderator knew it when he asked this question. All set up of course, to make the conservatives look cruel & inhuman, to the mainstream.

Did you notice in the debates, that the moderators were ALWAYS liberals - not a single conservative one in the group? That's not a random accident.

sorry about your health, Adak.

there's a lot of people here who can relate.

Back when I was taking my first course in Infectious Diseases,
an instructor said:
"Everyone in the world has a venereal disease, except me and wife.
"And I'm not so sure about my wife."

For Adek, it's the same sort of thing.
"Everyone in the world is a liberal, except..."

So, despite my rule of not believing anything we hear in the last week before an election ...

http://www.truth-out.org/buzzflash/c...m-auto-bailout

In what sense can a Union "charge someone"? Publicly accuse? Initiate legal proceedings?

Is it political mudslinging? Or is there a genuine offense behind this?

It's probably a political ploy to attract attention to this story Griff posted.

Sam, I could believe you - if only my eyes could actually see what you claim to be true.

Sadly, they can't, and so I can't. But I understand - facts are horribly resistant to the change that every liberal would love them to be.

It may be difficult to get into the SSD program, but it IS being done, by people who are SO DISABLED, that they run a roofing business, on the side, etc.

How many claimants do you think are undeserving?

I honestly have no idea of what the numbers are for fraud, with SSD. That's one of the problems - they have no one who checks on these claimants. Once they're approved, that's it. That is like a bear to honey.

Sadly, those who forget basic science routinely use observation as proof. You were taught in second grade science that observation alone is junk science. Also called lies. To know something means supporting facts with hard numbers. You never provide numbers. Your post classic junk science: subjective claims supported only by your feelings.

Sadly, you will not even answer a basic question necessary to have trust. Why did Romney say he was more liberal than Kennedy? You recommend him as a 'true conservative'? Well, Romney's strongest supporters are white men with the least education. People who foolishly know only from observation. Who only believe what they are first told.

Sadly, you demonstrate why my father so loved advertising. So much fun was to manipulate those with least education. Those who know only from observation. He loved to manipulate those who only know what first told.

Sadly also called Romney's strongest supporters. You never knew Romney said he was more liberal than Ted Kennedy. You never knew that Obamacare was based in Romneycare. You never knew Romneycare was first proposed in the Heritage Foundation. They forget to tell you that. Tea Party and Romney supporters only know what first told. They did not tell you those facts. So you remain in denial.

Sadly, your facts are inventions by people, like my father, who so loved to manipulate the most naive. White men with little education. Same technique also proved Saddam had WMDs. Same technique even blamed Saddam for 11 September. Same technique even proved that Pond's has Age Defying creams and Geritol for health. Scams are so easy among those who only believe what they are told. The naive only believe what they are first told. Sadly, even think observation is sufficient to have knowledge.

Why do you avoid the question? Why did Romney claim to be more liberal than Kennedy? Because he can lie. The most naive will only believe propaganda. He can lie because you forget or ignore facts. You refuse to answer the question for one simple reason. The powers that be have not yet told you what to think. You are why my father so loved advertising. Even your knowledge is only subjective observation. Fun is to manipulate the most naive (white men with least education) with outright lies. Sadly, even forget what was taught in second grade science. You know what the propaganda machine says to think. And think observation is sufficient to know something.

If informed, you could say why Romney once called himself more liberal than Kennedy. If informed, then you can say why Romneycare is so criticized by Romney. Sadly, you cannot. Sadly, you said, "Go ask Romney". An insult because you ignore Romney the flouder. Sadly you believe a politician will a history of flip-flopping. Sadly, you believe that means trust.

Sadly, you must even forget what was taught in second grade science. Sadly, that is why Romney's strongest supporters are white men with least education. People most easily manipulated by propaganda. You did not even know that Romney called himself more liberal than Kennedy. And that Obamacare is Romneycare. Sadly, you don't know that because propaganda machine did not tell you what to think.

Romney said he was more liberal that Kennedy. If honest, you can explain that. If dishonest or an uneducated white man (who even forgets what was taught in second grade science), then you must ignore or deny hard facts.

I wonder if it's true but it would not surprise me.

http://act.watchdog.net/petitions/18...ef=K-QMFvL1Z7I

Your observations, are not just your feelings. They are factual, but not enough for a full statistical measure, since the sampling size is too small. But they are not subjective, and they are not feelings.

When you have two acquaintances on SSD, (and only know 2 people on SSD), and they're both young and healthy (and in one case, knows a trade that is in demand), it is something not to be ignored.


Drivel about something a politician said 10 years ago, is not relevant today. Not for Obama, and not for Romney.
Yes, I did know that, and Romneycare in MA has been a failure, according to Conservatives reporting on it.
That was also mentioned on the Conservative talk shows. So, wrong again.

I've got about 4 years of college, and never believed Bush about Saddam causing 9/11. I remember Ponds and Geritol commercials. So what?

All politicians, lie - grow up. You're obsessed with this drivel of a comment from years ago.

All politicians change their minds, from time to time. Facts on the ground, change, the will of the people they represent, changes, the wording of laws, and the degree of enforcement, changes.

Any politician who never changes their mind on issues, wouldn't be worth a damn. Their VALUES are important, and shouldn't change much, but their position on issues BETTER change, as the situation changes.

Yes, I see you are obsessed with Romney's comment. And with the adverb "sadly", which is sad, in and of itself. Get help, or get over it.

Have you ever noticed how the pictures are chosen to show who their preferred candidate is?

Can't do it every time, of course, but take a look at these two, from the BBC news:

Which candidate is shown with huge shadowed eye sockets, and a sweaty, over-exposed, glare on his forehead?
Attachment 41563

And here, they used an angle showing Romney with a microphone stand appearing to be a part of his mid-line.
Attachment 41564

You know they have zillions of pics they could use, but time after time, you'll see a real slant to their photo's.

You'd think the BBC at least, could do a much more even handed reporting job.

Tomorrow is the big day!

Good luck to both candidates - indeed, to all the candidates, in all the parties. They've all worked hard to get this far.

You can get really good deals at Taggart. I just got some awesome bath towels.

For about the 16th million time, the acronym is SSI/SSDI NOT DI and NOT SSD. If you can't even get the name right, how are we supposed to believe that you got anything else right, either?

The sleaze bag on SSI/SSDI who runs a construction business or drives huge trucks cross country on a 24/7 basis or who runs a saw mill and picks up his gov't check after putting in a good 10 hour day tossing around hundreds of tons of wooden planks is one of those urban myths that stubborningly refuses to die.

Not a single person EVER who has related such stories to me actually knew the villian involved. The story teller always knows OF the bad guy but seldom anything ABOUT him. Like, did you ever ask your buddy if he's on private disability instead of SSI/SSDI? Private is usually easier to get and it pays more. Federal takes forever and what they pay a person on SSI could barely keep a flea alive. The amount SSI recipients get currently is $680.00/mo. That's it. Period. Once you get your SSI, you may qualify to get on the wait list for a housing voucher - usually takes 2 - 5 years, and if you haven't died yet by time your name comes to the top of the list, Uncle Sugar will grudgingly hand you a voucher that allows a single person to rent a tiny one bedroom apartment - if he sticks to places on the wrong side of the tracks of course.

The payoff is just hardly ever worth the energy required to deal with the Feds and pull off really major lies to a succession of health care professionals. Oh, and you also need to get your old employers in on it with you - they have to fill out forms about the quality of your efforts back when you worked for them. In my experience, busy small business owners who I had to go back to and beg them to fill out my form got kind of irritated. They did it because they could see that I needed the help, but otherwise why should they bother?

I suggest you get a new pair of glasses - maybe 3 or 4 of them.

At this point I can only congratulate you on what is obviously a deep dedication to maintaining your belief in something which in fact has no basis in reality. It must be really hard to walk around all day with your head up your ass that way - sorry to be so blunt, but I've never read such blatent lies in quite sometime.

In fact, could you do me a little favor and call up my social security caseworker and inform her that she no longer needs to send me those recertification forms each year and that my doctors no longer have to waste their time sending her updates regarding my condition. What a relief it would be to get rid of at least some of that paperwork!

Come to think of it, I'm feeling pretty PO'ed that you never bothered to inform either me or the government of our "bear to the honey" status until just now. No! Instead, a few months ago I had to fill out a 26 page government form - one of the worst paperwork nightmares I have ever seen in my life. It took me almost a MONTH to finish that damn thing, staying up late to get just one more question finished.

I was applying to be allowed admission into a special rehabilitation program which could possibly allow me to become self supporting. The government was so indifferent to my disability status that the director of the program, Carolyn the Fed, called me 5 times - FIVE, I kid you not - LONG Distance, to grill me about the various aspects of my plan and my current abilities. The Feds have also fired off to me 3 envelopes of more forms to be filled out, and 2 or 3 sets of detailed instructions which must be followed to the letter. Otherwise, I will get more fact finding interrogations from Carolyn the Fed. And Carolyn CARES. She cares BIG TIME!

So, in conclusion, thank you for so completely proving that your information is totally unreliable and that your comments are less trustworthy then Urbane Guerilla's - a low that it's almost impossible for anyone else to sink to, but you have done it.

By the process of reducto ad absurdem you have nicely proved my points for me. Good job!

So, what else do you know about the Easter Bunny?

AND for anyone who is honestly curious about the amount of fraud that occurs with the Social Security Administration - including overpaying and UNDERpaying regular Social Security retirement benefits as well as overpayment and UNDERpayment in the SSI/SSDI programs, that amount comes to 2% a year TOTAL. For ALL of the SSA. This was the most recent report as of September 2012. If you enjoy reading stuff that the Government Accounting Office puts out, click on the report here and expect to fall asleep within 5 minutes.

Not hardly. Back in the day when investigative reporting meant actually investigating, they showed the guy up working on his clients roofing. In video. He's fully disabled, but he's walking up a ladder, and installing the roofing - no problem.

Yes. They called it SSI or SSD, but that's what they were on, and yes, it took them a long time, but they got there - and they were young at that time. Definitely NOT private disability.

My eyesight is not what it used to be, but the initials making up the acronym are of no consequence. We're communicating.

I have factual experience, and you have the typical naive viewpoint you see in liberals.

And you know WHY you're getting grilled big time about welfare payments now, don't you?

Way too many people have gone on some form of welfare, since the recession hit -- because Obama's policies to get our economy moving again, have been a colossal failure. :mad:

Walked right into that one, didn't you? :D

Speaking as a European and a Brit, you have no idea how odd that sounds to me.

"we should have, as a society, a prohibition on abortion."

Mitt Romney, presidential candidate. (3:24, but watch the whole thing really)

Oh yeah? What's your opinion on Romney's stance then? It appears that he does not agree with you from a religious perspective, he only wants to make abortion illegal from a secular perspective.

See video in previous post.

They who, white man? Wanna tell me what investigative entertainer aired this information and what entity he was affiliated with? Plus when this was reported and where?

Say, WHAT?

Try reading what I and others have posted. I'll put my factual experience against your conservative view that can't get past the nose on your face any day of the week.

Yeah, as a life time recipient of welfare, it ticks me off that they don't seem to trust me anymore. I still have the same imaginary 6 kids just like always. I still never have worked a lick in my entire life and I still use my food stamps to buy me meth just like always. Last week my most recent boyfriend (lost track of some of them - there's been so many) brought me this really cool red leather jacket and matching boots that him and some friends "found" in a house in the fancy part of town.

My boyfriends always bring me nice things. A man who doesn't please his woman is no man of mine. That ain't changed either. I told him I was sick and tired of that stupid cunt assigned to my case and my boyfriend's gonna go have a nice little chat with her. I won't be getting grilled much longer once he does that!

Well, if you'll excuse me I gotta go explain to my home girls how to beat the system and get all the cool stuff I get. A lot of them girls have quit "dating" since I've shown them how much easier it is when we got a bro in the White House now. Makes me feel good that I can help out other folk too and not just be helping myself to all those goodies and not sharing or nothing.

BTW, I do believe you were the one that walked into something. What the hell is that stuff you done drug in on your shoe? Smells like a pee party in here. :p:

Total and insulting bullshit. A conclusion from observation was, at best, only a wild speculation. We were all taught about junk science in second grade. Spontaneous reproduction. Life is created by flooding a pond. Observation proves it. Only the most naive assume observation is fact.

Moldy bread breeds maggots. Also well proven by observation. Because junk science (also called lying to oneself) is knowledge from observation. This is second grade science. Must extremists be taught second grade science?

You demonstrate why propaganda and ideology are posted by you as facts. You do not even know the difference between junk science reasoning and what is required to have facts. Your fundamental problem has been identified.

How to identify anyone easily manipulated by rhetoric? He does not post numbers. Adak, you never post numbers. Your subjective reasoning is another symptom of junk science.

A classic lie: tax cuts create jobs. Even observation demonstrates that false. Why do you ignore observation when it contradicts your extremist political ideology? Observation is only valid when convenient?

Knowledge from observation is classic junk science. Observation says tax cuts destroys jobs. Why do you ignore observations when it contradicts your extremist political views? Anyone can speculate by observing your posts. And always come to the same conclusion. Extremism justified by myths is alive and well.

When you watch a car drive by - did the car REALLY drive by? Yes. It is your observation, and it is also a FACT.

When you watch the traffic signal light turn red - did the light REALLY change? Yes. It is your observation, and it is also a FACT.

And if you had the common sense that God gave to geese, you'd acknowledge at least THAT much.

Lordy you're pathetic! Flies drop eggs over sites they believe are favorable for their eggs to hatch and grow into maggots. The bread doesn't breed, anything. It is merely the site the eggs will mature and hatch in.

You must, for sure. :D :D

You can't id your butt with both hands in a well-lit room, who you kidding?

Next, I suppose our national debt will be "junk science" and my "subjective reasoning"? :rolleyes:

I was around when Kennedy cut the taxes, and I was around when Reagan cut the taxes, and in both cases, the personal wealth increased, and spending by businesses (especially small businesses) and consumers increased, and the economy benefited a great deal from it.

Wrong again, Mr. Junk Science man!

So I own a small restaurant, and now, because income taxes are cut, people are going to eat at home more often? Or I have a gas station, so now people with more money in their pockets, will drive less?

You really have shown no common sense at all in your arguments.

Obama has started calling terrorists associated with Al Qaeda - "folks"!

He's says he's going to hunt down the "folks" who attacked the consulate in Benghazi. Twice, he refers to the most violent terrorists who killed our Ambassador and killed a few other Americans, as "folks". Like the folks you meet at school or in your neighborhood.

They're surely not "folks" to me! :eek: :eek:

If you want to hear the speeches (two of them) involved, you'll have to d/l the first hour of the Nov. 5th audio program, from here:

http://www.rogerhedgecock.com/category/228485/podcasts
(and you want h1 for the first hour).

The program is still on-air, so it won't be posted up for awhile.

Sam, this thread isn't about welfare, or about welfare fraud. If you want to dive into that subject, start another thread. The "disabled" guy who was roofing, was caught on video, but it was years ago. I watch very little TV these days, and it appears that investigative reporting is something that is rarely done on an individual claiming they're disabled.

After tomorrow, this thread will become obsolete , no matter who wins the election. To that end, this will be my last post in this thread.

Obama asks his black supporters at a rally to vote because "voting is the best revenge".

Romney asks his supporters to vote, because "you love your country".

That reflects the most basic difference in the candidates character, imo.

Romney served as a missionary for two years, overseas. Obama hung out with radicals and practiced Chicago style politics.

Romney has been a success in business, and in special projects like the Winter Olympics in 2000, which was WAY behind schedule when he took over the project.

Obama has never run a business - not even a lemonade stand.

And most damning of all, Obama left Ambassador Stevens to be killed by terrorists (which he calls "folks"), after a 6+ hour attack, despite calls for help to Washington, to the CIA (from their men who joined in Ambassador Stevens defense, and were also killed), and despite having a large Air Base, just 1 hour away. (The same air base that defended Benghazi against the slaughter that Ghaddafi had planned for them, Aviano, Italy).

There was even a recon drone overhead watching the last 2 hours of the attack, streaming live video to Washington.

And Obama watched them get taken out - and did NOTHING!

We impeached Nixon for supporting a burglary where there was very little damage done, and no one got hurt. We tried to impeach Clinton over some hanky panky in the White House.

But Obama watches a US Ambassador and three CIA agents, under attack by terrorists, urgently requesting help by phone, email, and dedicated alarm, and does NOTHING TO HELP them.

And barely a peep of Obama having done anything wrong.

And that's VERY WRONG.

This is my last post in this thread. The campaigning by both sides is over, and it's up to us who we want for President, and MANY other political positions.

Good luck to All! :)

Case in point: Adak.