The Cellar - Burn A Koran Day

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- - Burn A Koran Day (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=23512)

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman (Post 683053)

What was the threat of violence? How was this pastor "violent" from half way around the world?

Read the next paragraph.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigV (Post 683055)

I know I have, and every other person has, feelings and beliefs that are held so closely that an insult or a threat to those beliefs is indistinguishable from an insult or a threat to my person.

I can't think of any I would kill over.

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Where is the line between one's beliefs and one's self?

That's immaterial, the question is where's the line between insult and physical threat.

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What things are worth defending? Each person answers such question for themselves, but I believe we all have them, including those absurd Afghans.

Defending from what, someone changing you mind(beliefs)? No one can force you to do that. Now if they threaten you with retribution for not changing your mind, then it's kick ass time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce (Post 683059)

I can't think of any I would kill over.

Not even bacon?

That's not a belief.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce (Post 683059)

I can't think of any I would kill over.

But you suggest stoning all of a woman's male relatives for making the woman wear a burka. I guess you have a little wiggle room there.

Christ, you really don't get it, do you. :facepalm:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griff (Post 682924)

You have emerged from the largest socialist enterprise in our country the US Army. You've been fed, clothed, sheltered, and educated by us the taxpayers. You were taken care of and told what to do most of your adult life, but now you are confronted by the real world you defended. Now you realize you don't care much for a democracy of the real world where people have to figure out how to feed, cloth, shelter, and educate themselves. That is the person I see complaining about taxes. I'm sure you see me as a cartoon as well, but I've at least attempted to communicate where I'm coming from.

The difference is that I had to give up something to get those perks. I had to make many sacrifices that neither you or many other will ever have to give up. It was a business arrangement between me, and the sacrifices I had to make over 20 years, and the government, who gave me the perks, it was and is a contract, written and re-negotiated at milestones over the course of 20 years. The real world has no such contracts or responsibilities to get the perks of food, clothing, shelter, and education with the government. So I don't think there is much of a comparison. But of course you have repeatedly reinforced your assessment of my views on most subjects. I don't see you as a cartoon at all. I see you as a real person with a family and much of the same responsibilities that I have, and a significantly different view about life. You want me to tolerate what you respect, but yet you find me and my views completely non-respectable. I accepted that a long time ago. Peace.

Merc, does that mean that you would support social programs as long as they required some degree of commitment from the recipients? Jobs programs for those who are willing to work, welfare for those who are willing to attend occupational training, food for those who will work in the food kitchen/garden some number of hours? Healthcare for those who... what? Can you think of a reciprocal commitment that would be fair for people who needed to be on a federal healthcare plan?

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Originally Posted by Clodfobble (Post 683631)

[off the cuff response] yes, all of that. Really my only point was to say there is no comparison to my experience, socialized system (completely false premise IMHO), to the current social system of increasing public dependence.

I need to think on this to formulate a more complete response.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 683603)

The difference is that I had to give up something to get those perks. I had to make many sacrifices that neither you or many other will ever have to give up.

Minor quibble; You didn't have to do it, you thought it was a good deal and you took it and the others who paid for it did so without the job security you enjoyed. Condescension is an interesting poison which we both seem to like. Where interactions with you are concerned, I fall into the same klesha that you fall into whenever you talk politics. I'll try for peace, but your passion for the fringe doesn't strike me as a way to a sensible solution to our mounting debt crisis, so despite our not so dissimilar economic views we will be in conflict.

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Originally Posted by Griff (Post 683655)

Minor quibble; You didn't have to do it, you thought it was a good deal and you took it and the others who paid for it did so without the job security you enjoyed.

Hardly a minor difference. I had a contract for job, which I had to qualify for, through an education, or I would not have gotten the job. Once the system accepted my application I had to abide by a set system of terms and conditions. And throughout that period I had to continually requalify to continue to receive my pay and benifits. That is hardly a comparison to a socialized system where your only qualification is that you have to do nothing and someone else pays your way.... for generations.

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Condescension is an interesting poison which we both seem to like. Where interactions with you are concerned, I fall into the same klesha that you fall into whenever you talk politics. I'll try for peace, but your passion for the fringe doesn't strike me as a way to a sensible solution to our mounting debt crisis, so despite our not so dissimilar economic views we will be in conflict.

That may be so, but your disdain for me is well documented on this forum. I have hardly made such comments to you or about you with the exception of when I first joined, what, years ago. So be it.

Stop it Merc. Griff is not the one to pick this fight with. He's been more open than many to at least dialogue with you.

Why in the world would you think I was trying to pick a fight with him!

Good fucking grief, I can't even disagree with something someone states, state a counter position with it being viewed as "picking a fight".

I felt like we were making some headway in having an agreeable disagreement about some issues. Isn't that how people hash stuff out? I have been quite civil in this exchange and all my exchanges since LJ started his 40 plus page rant about me.

Anyone feel free to pile on.