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-   -   SCOTUS Grants Guantanamo Prisoners Habeas Corpus (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=17492)

Flint 06-19-2008 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lookout123 (Post 463722)
and your source for that bit of information is?
I've always heard the same thing, so I looked it up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Germany and Italy generally treated prisoners from the British Commonwealth, France, the U.S. and other western allies, in accordance with the Geneva Convention (1929), which had been signed by these countries.[11] Nazi Germany did not extend this level of treatment to non-Western prisoners, such as the Soviets, who suffered harsh captivities and died in large numbers while in captivity.

BigV 06-19-2008 12:42 PM
Hey mercy.... What law does apply at Guantanamo?

Be forewarned, an answer like "the military is in charge" will precipitate another question like this one, "What laws apply to the military?"

So, what do you think? What laws apply?

TheMercenary 06-19-2008 12:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flaja (Post 463719)
Just because the United States has had to go to war against thugs, does not justify the United States itself acting like a thug.

BTW: I cannot recall ever hearing about ill-treatment for U.S. POWs held by Germany in World War I. Furthermore, up until 1944, when the Germans decided they had nothing left to lose, Germany went out of its way to observe the Geneva Convention for British and American POWs because Germany wanted to insure that German POWs held by the British and Americans were given good treatment.
Note I did not list WW1.

TheMercenary 06-19-2008 12:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dar512 (Post 463723)
So we should be no better than they were? Is that the kind of American values you want your kids to live up to?
What are you talking about dar? Where did we begin to discuss my values and my family? Where did I say it was ok to torture.

TheMercenary 06-19-2008 01:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey (Post 463724)
Because it list things that the government must, or must not, do, and doesn't say "except outside our borders".
And no where in the document does it say it includes all peoples outside of our borders any more than any other countries constitutional documents apply to US citizens while in their countries. It does not follow logic. All constitutions of all countries do not apply to everyone. All constitutions of all countries are applicable to the people who are citizens of each country. Why are you trying to make the US Constitution a world document? Maybe you think the UN should adapt our Constitution and make it the worlds.

TheMercenary 06-19-2008 01:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigV (Post 463726)
Hey mercy.... What law does apply at Guantanamo?
Good question. I don't have the answer. Hence the pickle we are in now going back and forth with the courts. A better question is how do we catagorize the prisoners who are there? Some are known terrorists, others less so. Like I have said plenty of times on this forum in plenty of places, with some exceptions, if I had my way I would close it tomarrow and send them all back to their host countries and make it not our problem anymore. What their host countries choose to do with them is their business.

flaja 06-19-2008 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 463731)
Note I did not list WW1.

But you said within the last 100 years. World War I went from 1914 to 1918 and the U.S. was involved from 1917 to 1918. The last time I checked 1918 was within the last 100 years.

flaja 06-19-2008 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 463732)
What are you talking about dar? Where did we begin to discuss my values and my family? Where did I say it was ok to torture.
When you said that legal due process rights under the U.S. Constitution do not apply to non-U.S. citizens.

flaja 06-19-2008 06:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 463736)
Good question. I don't have the answer. Hence the pickle we are in now going back and forth with the courts. A better question is how do we catagorize the prisoners who are there? Some are known terrorists,
By whose standards? If none of the people at Gitmo have been given a fair trial, how do you know which ones are terrorists?

And what right do we have to hold the ones that are not terrorists?

DanaC 06-19-2008 06:42 PM
Quote:
By whose standards? If none of the people at Gitmo have been given a fair trial, how do you know which ones are terrorists?
Excellent question.

classicman 06-19-2008 06:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flaja (Post 463789)
By whose standards? If none of the people at Gitmo have been given a fair trial, how do you know which ones are terrorists?
Flip a coin, perhaps?

flaja 06-19-2008 08:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by classicman (Post 463795)
Flip a coin, perhaps?
Justice should be reduced to a coin toss?

classicman 06-19-2008 08:43 PM
Ever heard of the word factitious?

flaja 06-19-2008 09:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by classicman (Post 463811)
Ever heard of the word factitious?
I looked it up, but what’s your point?

Happy Monkey 06-19-2008 09:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 463734)
Why are you trying to make the US Constitution a world document? Maybe you think the UN should adapt our Constitution and make it the worlds.
It's not a world document. It's a US. Government document, and it applies to the US Government wherever in the world it operates.


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