I feel the same way.
Guess we just disagree.

*sigh*
So much for civilization and society. So much sophistication resides on the outside and very little on the inside. I'm starting to think that some men only think they have a true understanding of mature subjects, and really prefer to remain ignorant.

I still wonder who gets to sue if something happens during the incubation process and a miscarriage happens?
What happens then, in the case of premature births?

There are too many variables that include burning a witch here. One thing leads to the other- we are talking about men's choice over women's bodies which can and does go very wrong...tons of possibilities there for a "grave" outcome. Especially when historically and recurrently these kinds of social and legal processes have killed women and deprived them of their natural and lawful rights.

I see your disagreement RK and raise you a-there is no "just" about the subject so far. But I will offer a - I wish RK would "just" pull his head out of his butt, c'mon you're smarter than that.

It's funny. Throughout history, the one thing men haven't been able to exercise total control over has been the in utero development of babies. But fuck me, if they don't keep trying.

I like to think of "the consolation of philosophy" at times like this.
Men pull a scrap of knowledge from philosophy's hand-made dress, and then think they own the whole damn thing. They seem more like idiots. (If you are seeing from the perspective of women's health issues...... ALL of them)
There's enough evidence here that shows- sometimes people don't deserve the sex you give them. (depending on who they are) Because they can't handle it. Never could. Never will.

Ladies, just say no........I think they've become too spoiled. :)

I wish Dana would quit talking about icky girl stuff.
;)

You know, that was one of the texts that got translated into Old English, during King Alfred's reign. In fact, the preface to the English edition is alleged to be Alfred's own. The translator did make some minor alterations....to soften its pagan edges. Alfred himself apparently found great solace in it, when he was at his lowest ebb in the marshes, and the Vikings overunning Wessex itself.

If men can't have a say on the child when it's in the womb, why are they expected to pay when it's out? Nobody has answered that one yet, have they?

The same reason abortions are legal, and infanticide isn't.

I think men should have a say on a child while it is still in the womb, in fact, I think such decisions should be made jointly, if at all possible. What I disagree with, is giving the man the LEGAL right to override the woman's decision if they cannot reach an agreement. Such a legal right would eliminate the woman's control over her own body and health. Because the fetus is still a part of the woman's body until she gives birth, any external control over it equates to control over the woman. Once the fetus becomes a newborn, it is no longer supported entirely by its mother's body, requiring monetary aid such as diapers and food, for which the father should be partially responsible.

I have to like it as- is because I know it's been mutilated but I'm not going to take the time to translate it myself from it's original text. I don't trust English translations at all (especially coming out of the middle ages) but I can't be forced to translate half the stuff I love-because I don't have that much time.......The mis-translations are intentional because even back then there were agendas as there are today........We can't have the greatest minds in the history of the world enjoying man-boy love orgies and writing about it openly......didn't happen. Or women boffing each other at 9 day pagan parties in worship of "bona". Nope.
There's your english translations- wrap it around a metaphor and strip it of "immorality" then layer it in modern poetic literature to cover the narritive holes....... Something even the Catholics can respect. Defy raw data. Apply agenda.

So you're one of the use sex as the carrot and the stick school. Do you belong to the, use the children as the reward and punishment school, also?

Whatever Bruce. Don't use a joke to sway an arguement. It's going to take a lot more than that to sway me from my arguement. Try another door on a different block. Teases are around the corner.

oh...that was wrong of me to say.

my apologies.

Women that use sex and children as weapons are far from a fucking joke.

Once again- let me explain this to you. I was making a joke. I don't care wether you think it's funny or not.

...accepted without prejudice.