Dana, this is probably the most volatile argument you will see on the Cellar. Gun rights are a close second.

All parties involved in the situation are a bunch of fuckups. The Palestinians will never achieve statehood through their current means. They should take a page out of MLK's or Gandhi's or even Malcolm X's book. And the Israelis are going to have to let Gaza and the West Bank go and offer some sort of restitution for the Palestians who lost their land. The other countries in the Middle East need to quit using the Palestinians as cheap pawns to further their objectives. And the Bush administration's policy shift is incredibly dangerous...quite frankly, I think it sets us up for another terrorist attack.

My $0.05...

*Nods*
I hear ya Sycamore. Its hard to see any way forward from this point. As to the possibility of another terrorist attack, I hope you are wrong, but I fear you might be right.

syc is right, this is one of a small basket of issues that never fails to start a rapidly degenerative flamewar.

It's not fucking racist, dude, I go to Vietnam and Cambodia at least once a year and I know perfectly well it's not in the slightest bit uncommon, either that or for a green-card.

Amazing how many middle aged, white, assholes I've met who have Vietnamese or Cambodian wives.

I remember the oddly disproportionate number of Philipino wives of american sailors as well.

Neither of your links shows a lie, or anything even remotely evasive.

Of course. Who would consider someone blowing up women and children without provocation or cause to be an act of aggression?

Yes, it is racist. Do some people sometimes get married for money or greencards? Yes, but it's rare when compared to the number of real marriages for love. False marriages are less than 1% of the marriages in Vietnam and that sort of thing happens in America too. Should I assume that any American women who marry black men from Africa are only doing it for a green card or claim that they "bought" their husbands? Of course not, that would be racist, just as your statement was.

Wow, there's nothing racist about that remark either right?

American white men marrying those women are trading up because those women are far better than American women when it comes to marriage. They act like real women who take care of their families. They work hard and don't act as though everything is owed to them. They appreciate what their husband does work as a partner instead of trying to get the upper hand on their husbands. They are feminine, beautiful, intelligent, worldly, classy, and cultured.

Are there beautiful women in America? Yes, from every culture. But generally speaking those raised in America are only interested in what a man can do for them. They want a slave, not a partner. They can't cook, and can hardly make reservations. Are there some American born women who want a partner, and who can cook, and manage a household with children? Yes, but they are far and few between and usually have bad attitudes.

My wife treats me like a king and I treat her like a queen. I am happy to do things for a woman who appreciates me and she feels the same way.

Your blatantly stupid remark about "many middle aged, white, assholes" is very telling and I don't believe for a second you've ever been to Cambodia or Vietnam once, let alone once a year.

Many American women are bitter about American men going elsewhere to find wives. They see the reluctance of American men to "commit" to American women and are frustrated by seeing them happily comitting to younger, prettier, kinder, women who don't ask things like "What have you done for me lately?" and who don't think they are doing their husband a favor by having sex with him. It bothers them to see these men happier than they'd ever be if they married American women.

I was getting plenty of action right here in America, but I'd never marry an American women. Well I can't say that. I suppose I could, but it would be so hard to find an American women worth marrying, it would be like finding a needle in a haystack the size of a volcano.

Well that certainly confirms all my thinking on the situation.

It's not racist, it's a startment of fact.
I know many assholes with vietnamese or cambodian wives. I didn't even propose a theory.

Nailbomb strapped to some desperate soul, flachette round from a 10-ton tank parked in your street, point me out the difference.

Where the fuck did you pull that number from? God, considering the amount of crap you pull out of your arse you should be able to park a small car in there by now.

Let me translate this:

I am an asshole who has expectations of women that date back to the 50s, since no sane woman would subject themselves to living with me, I'll grab one from a less socially liberal country where such behaviour is more accepted.

I wish I was joking but I've seen it time and time again, god forbid relationships be demanding. There seems to me a signifigant portion of one, if not two generations of men that simply can't handle the fact women want more these days. Not all by a long shot but a fair few.
Ask you wife to look up a business called G.A.T Securty in Ho Chi Minh, it's in Dien Bien Phu St, just over the bridge in Binh Thanh. They also have offices in Hanoi and Cambodia. Or ask when alex from aussie is coming back at the Apocalypse bar, or ask after me at the Saigon chapter of the Hash House Harriers. Idiot.

Hell if you want I'll put up a copy of a couple of my last visas.

Have you actually met any of the women I'm talking about?

Looking into some of their eyes was like staring into the eyes of a snake.

I've seen more compassion in the eyes of a Dept. of Motor Vehicles worker.

What I've said requires no translation but what women say always does. They speak in code.

Yes, they want more...more than they're entitled to, more than half, more than they're worth. Men want more too...more love, move compassion, more traditional values and roles, etc.

The women who don't give men what they want have nobody else to blame when they end up middle-aged and alone. Perhaps this is why so many of them turn into butch buzzcut bulldyke manhaters in their late years.

Marriages among Asian and South American end in divorce far less frequently than among Americans. That's becasue these women act like women. They treat their husbands like a king and take care of their families. And in return they are treated as a queen and given comforts and love. It's a 2-way street, and American women think all roads should lead to them or that they are doing a man a favor when they sleep with him.

I've gone out with more than my fair share of American women and most want a commitment and want promises of marriage, despite the fact that they offer nothing and demand everything. Fat chance.

As far as you going to Vietnam I still don't believe it. Say something in Vietnamese. What district do you usually stay in? Where do you stay? Which bridge are you talking about? Is it the Y shaped bridge that goes over the river? My father-in-law lives right by there so I know the area. Just because your company has an office there, doesn't mean you've gone there. Although if you are an Australian, the chances are better that you've been there.

There are many Australian companies there. I was offered a job teaching computer science at the RMIT campus in Saigon (HCM City) for $2000 USD/month, but I turned it down because I couldn't bring myself to live in a communist country.

I've gone out with more than my fair share of American women and most want a commitment and want promises of marriage, despite the fact that they offer nothing and demand everything. Fat chance.

Riiight, as opposed to what you demand, which is merely the complete subjugation of their emotional and mental existence to the control of another -- I'm sure these lasses are merely making the best possible deal for themselves that doesn't involve biting their own arm off to get out of this trap of a radar-esque "queen of paradise" existence.

Hi!

As a longtime lurker and rare poster..I feel impelled to state that you guys at the cellar have one of the weirdest most entertaining human zoos going..

:D

back to lurking

see you in a year or two!

I think what happened is that radar's atheism got in his way of finding an american wife. There are plenty of women who are into the Promisekeeper thing ... submit to your husband, etc.

Originally posted by RadarYou mean far better than American women at being your indentured servant.

Just wait till she's been over here a while, learns Engrish (assuming you permit her to wear shoes and further her education), learns to drive (assuming you allow her to leave the house unescorted and purchase a car for her), makes some friends, starts watching Oprah and Dr. Phil and starts figuring out what American women already know about you.

I was happy for you when you posted your wedding thread. Now it is clear that you have deluded yourself into thinking that because no one stateside would have you that your 9,000 mile journey was a journey to a land of "so-called" superior women.

Your new bride will eventually learn that there is a life outside of being your slave. I pity you when she does. As submissive as Asian women appear to the naive Westerner, they are Tigers at heart and can tear the flesh from your bones. You think you have control in this relationship but my guess is that she is smart enough to permit you to think that until she decides otherwise - which she will. Submissiveness in Asian women is not an individual trait its a cultural one. And when you take her out of the culture, she will learn that there will be nothing to stop her from self-actualizing - a destiny that you will be seen as an obstacle to. I would plan for that if I were you and step aside when it does.

Seems to me she already bitch-slapped you for not lying to the Immigration Authorities about meeting or not meeting in an Airport bar. Where do you compartmentalize anomolous behaviour such as that - behaviour that does not mesh with your stereotypical "submissive Asian woman" view?

And you call us racist.

Radar, just remember that when, excuse me, if things do not proceed quite the way you have planned with your marriage, we will be here, and we will listen to what you have to say at that time.

You failed to answer two questions directly asked of you. So, again, bullshit. You're a liar.