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   Undertoad  Tuesday Jun 28 12:43 PM

6/28/2005: Most economical car



Thought it might be good to have this one, at a time when it looks like oil may be over $60/barrel soon.

In 7th grade I was taught the urban legend that the car companies had developed a carburetor that could do 50 miles per gallon (this was 1975, and 50 mpg was incredible), and were keeping it from the public. The teacher really believed the conspiracy theory. I believed it, too, because then I had been taught it by an actual school teacher. A few years later I learned that it was a legend and that we'd all been faked.

Well here it is... the entire Ananova story:

Swiss researchers have developed the world's most economical car that could circle the globe on only eight litres of fuel.

The Pac-Car uses hydrogen fuel cell technology and was developed by a team at the Swiss Federal Technical University headed by Professor Lino Guzzella.

He said the "car could drive around the earth only using eight litres of fuel", and that it could be ready for mass production in the next couple of years.


According to the back of my envelope, 1 earth per 8 liters is about 1000 miles per litre or about 250 miles per gallon. But it sure looks like they aren't hiding it, they're releasing photos of it and shooting for the market, etc. I guess the old legend really was false after all.



glatt  Tuesday Jun 28 12:54 PM

Go around the Earth with 8 liters? That's 2.11 gallons. The Earth is 24,900 miles around, so that's 11,800 mpg. With all due respect to these scientists, there is no way that is true.



xoxoxoBruce  Tuesday Jun 28 12:56 PM

Quote:
1 earth per 8 liters is about 1000 miles per litre or about 250 miles per gallon.
Hmm...earth=24,000miles....ahh, I'd burn that envelope.


Undertoad  Tuesday Jun 28 12:59 PM

Y'know, there's diameter and then there's circumference, and one can look damn stupid mixing them up.



wolf  Tuesday Jun 28 01:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by glatt
Go around the Earth with 8 liters? That's 2.11 gallons. The Earth is 24,900 miles around, so that's 11,800 mpg. With all due respect to these scientists, there is no way that is true.
Ahem. Hydrogen fuel cell.

Not unleaded.


glatt  Tuesday Jun 28 01:26 PM

Well, I never trust Annanova. But A quick Google search finds this link to the home page of the swiss scientists. They are claiming a world record of 5385 km/l fuel efficiency which works out to 12,664 mpg.

12,664 mpg. Unbelievable. I literally can't believe it.



BaruMonkey  Tuesday Jun 28 01:27 PM

Oh, that's beautiful.

Quote:
headed by Professor Lino Guzzella.
Guzzella
Guzzllah
(interpret through Boston accent)
Guzzler


Happy Monkey  Tuesday Jun 28 01:38 PM

The type of fuel is important. Cassini has gone pretty far on not very many liters of plutonium. Not that plutonium is usually measured in liters, but still. Also, Cassini doesn't have to deal with much friction...



BigV  Tuesday Jun 28 01:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey
The type of fuel is important. Cassini has gone pretty far on not very many liters of plutonium. Not that plutonium is usually measured in liters, but still. Also, Cassini doesn't have to deal with much friction...
Huh? You might as well have said titanium or silicon as plutonium, since none of them have anything to do with the propulsion of the vehicle.


glatt  Tuesday Jun 28 01:55 PM

Well, in the link I found, they claim:

Quote:
The world record is now with 5385 kilometers per litre gasoline.
Can't get much clearer than that. It's gasoline.

I'm still not sure I believe it. It's about 100 times greater than I would expect from an experimental car. I understand that fuel cell technology is a promising new technology, and that the "car" is just a bicycle shrouded in carbon fiber, but it's still amazing to me.


Happy Monkey  Tuesday Jun 28 02:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigV
Huh? You might as well have said titanium or silicon as plutonium, since none of them have anything to do with the propulsion of the vehicle.
Oh, well. I guess I read too much into the fact that it's powered by plutoniuim - I guess just the electronics are plutonium powered, not the propulsion.

But the point still stands, even without the support of its example...


lookout123  Tuesday Jun 28 02:33 PM

Quote:
In 7th grade I was taught the urban legend that the car companies had developed a carburetor that could do 50 miles per gallon
that is ok - in 7th grade i learned the legend of THE MOTHMAN. yep. from my science teacher. to this day i'm not sure if he really believed it or not.


Trilby  Tuesday Jun 28 02:43 PM

I went to Catholic schools so I did not learn about the carburetor OR the Mothman.

I did see a show on TV (Fact or Fiction or some-such) and they said the gub'mint had a car that could go 200 miles/gallon and they are, of course, suppressing it. Damn gub'mint. I wish the X-files was still on. Now I have to get my news from Jon Stewart.*

(*Kidding!--sort of)



John  Tuesday Jun 28 02:49 PM

A little googling tells me that the "km/L" conversion is equivalent energy use, not an indication of actual gas usage. It's a pure-hydrogen engine.

http://www.google.com/search?biw=128...=Google+Search

http://www.imrt.ethz.ch/pac-car/

http://www.azom.com/details.asp?newsID=3197

I want one. And a hydrogen fueling station to go with it.



wolf  Tuesday Jun 28 02:50 PM

They are not supressing it. They are just releasing it 10mpg at a time.



capnhowdy  Tuesday Jun 28 02:53 PM

I can't help but wonder: how much fuel you could buy as opposed to the cost of this vehicle? Might be cheaper to drive the old Ford the rest of your life.



Elspode  Tuesday Jun 28 02:58 PM

Doesn't look to me like this vehicle has much suspension travel, either...potholes would be a bitch.



capnhowdy  Tuesday Jun 28 03:01 PM

This will prob ALWAYS Be an experiment. At least in my lifetime.



Queen of the Ryche  Tuesday Jun 28 03:07 PM

Not much room for the groceries.....or the gun rack.....



lookout123  Tuesday Jun 28 03:40 PM

i'm still waiting for the flying DeLorean. when that arrives, then i'll be interested.



Senor Oso  Tuesday Jun 28 05:23 PM

12,000 miles per gallon, blah blah blah - I want to know how many cup holders it has?



xoxoxoBruce  Tuesday Jun 28 06:51 PM

Clearly this is a lab experiment moved outdoors. No groceries, gun rack, child seats or cup holders. No potholes, curbs or even hills for that matter. I wonder if it doesn't even need a push to get started.
No hydrogen stations so it doesn't work in the real world.
It says Kilometers per liter of gasoline but doesn't use gasoline.
The two drivers are engineers but only has one seat.
Between language translations and scientific equivalent conversions it's easy to get confused here.
All that, plus the fact it probably cost a jillion dollars means it's still a lab experiment that appears to be successful. I thought they already knew they could do that....you know..use hydrogen to drive electric motors.

Oh and welcome to the Cellar, BaruMonkey and John.



capnhowdy  Tuesday Jun 28 10:18 PM

[quote] ....you know..use hydrogen to drive electric motors. [quote] (xoxoxoBruce)..
If they could replenish the hydrogen with electricity that would be SOOOO perpetual.
I had a dog once that ate all the cat sh#t out of the cat box. I thought Hmmmmmmm... If I could train the cat to eat dogshit I would only have to feed them each one time and tada....
The cat had no respect for my scientific inclination. Glad he ran away..........



elSicomoro  Tuesday Jun 28 11:05 PM

My car gets anywhere from 18 mpg (in city driving with the A/C on full blast) to 35 mpg (on the highway with just the fan on)...I think I'll stick with that, thanks.



wolf  Tuesday Jun 28 11:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce
The two drivers are engineers but only has one seat.
Perhaps they are Greek?


LCanal  Wednesday Jun 29 06:16 AM

Best I found with a bit of surfing is 83.5mpg from a Honda Inspire that's 71.5 mpg for US gallons.



rupip  Wednesday Jun 29 08:08 AM

fuel prices

how much does a gallon in the us cost?
in europe it is about 5 USD

canīt believe that?! very easy: liter - us gallon 1: 3,7854; 1 liter gas around 1.1 EUR; 1 liter diesel around 1.0 EUR; 1 USD = around 1,2 EUR

maybe that explains why the swiss guys tried really hard.



capnhowdy  Wednesday Jun 29 08:34 AM

of course.... that explains it. I think.



xoxoxoBruce  Wednesday Jun 29 08:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rupip
how much does a gallon in the us cost?
in europe it is about 5 USD

canīt believe that?! very easy: liter - us gallon 1: 3,7854; 1 liter gas around 1.1 EUR; 1 liter diesel around 1.0 EUR; 1 USD = around 1,2 EUR

maybe that explains why the swiss guys tried really hard.
Since I paid $4us 25 years ago in Spain, I believe it.


LCanal  Wednesday Jun 29 08:46 PM

Here in Indo it's subsidized. Itís 2800 Rp per litre so thatís err, carry the one, move the decimal place, $1.14 a gallon.
Diesel is usually 60%



LCanal  Wednesday Jun 29 08:52 PM

Fresh prawn heads inside the curtain rods or more exotic, if there is an Oriental market nearby a Durian somewhere discrete.



John  Thursday Jun 30 04:08 PM

Got a new one for you.

Honda's leasing hydrogen cars to families.
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsar...ELCELLS-DC.XML



linknoid  Thursday Jun 30 06:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad
According to the back of my envelope, 1 earth per 8 liters is about 1000 miles per litre or about 250 miles per gallon. But it sure looks like they aren't hiding it, they're releasing photos of it and shooting for the market, etc. I guess the old legend really was false after all.
Just a quick math check, a gallon is about 4 times the size of a liter, not 1/4. You should be able to go about 4 times as far on a gallon as on a liter, so more like 4000 miles per gallon instead of 250, assuming the rest of your calculations were correct.


BigV  Thursday Jun 30 06:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LCanal
Fresh prawn heads inside the curtain rods or more exotic, if there is an Oriental market nearby a Durian somewhere discrete.
Uh, don't know about curtain rodded prawn heads, BUT!

I have seen durian in the local Uwajimaya's (which as ethnic grocers go, is UNtouchable. Practically a tourist destination all by itself, but I digress). What in the world would I do with it? I have been in equal parts intrigued by what I could do with it and repulsed by what it clearly could do to me should I approach it without proper respect and a pair of welding gloves. Have you eaten it? How was it prepared? I've heard it...smells. True? How?

Thanks in advance.


xoxoxoBruce  Thursday Jun 30 09:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LCanal
Here in Indo it's subsidized. Itís 2800 Rp per litre so thatís err, carry the one, move the decimal place, $1.14 a gallon.
Diesel is usually 60%
But it's only 10 cents a gallon in Iraq.


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