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   Undertoad  Tuesday Feb 15 08:40 AM

2/15/2005: Breastfeeding natural in Venezuela



This one appeared on Yahoo! Most Emailed, which is one of my regular haunts for images; and at first I didn't think much of it, but then jinx forwarded it along as well and she made a great point about it. I add her words here because she says it better than I could.

What a great picture. In the US we still have women having to fight for the 'right' to breastfeed in public and dealing with rude remarks from people suggesting she should 'do that' in the the bathroom - and here's this Venezuelan woman openly breastfeeding while talking to the President of her country. Just imagine GWB in the same situation.

I agree wholeheartedly, with one caution: in most other scenarios, W is a better role model than Chavez.



YellowBolt  Tuesday Feb 15 10:58 AM

The guy behind Chavez looks a little reticent about it, though.



dar512  Tuesday Feb 15 11:03 AM

I don't think reticent is the word. I think I'd have had some problems looking the woman in the eye, too.



jinx  Tuesday Feb 15 11:41 AM

Because you just don't see it enough, right? If it were a common sight I doubt you'd give it a second thought.



dar512  Tuesday Feb 15 12:33 PM

Probably.

I was being more facetious than anything else. Personally, I think the American culture is overly obsessed with skin.



SteveDallas  Tuesday Feb 15 01:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jinx
Just imagine GWB in the same situation.
I might pay to see that.


YellowBolt  Tuesday Feb 15 03:49 PM

Ah, right. NOT reticent that it was, then.



chrisinhouston  Tuesday Feb 15 05:29 PM

What's with the baby's shoes?



dasviper  Tuesday Feb 15 05:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jinx
Because you just don't see it enough, right? If it were a common sight I doubt you'd give it a second thought.
"Sorry boss, I was late to work today because I had to put Preparation H on my asshole". It's perfectly natural and anatomically correct, so why not say it in public? If 'asshole' were a common word, you might not give it a second thought.

It's a free country, which means that people–including the president, or your mayor, or your neighbor–are free to be uncomfortable with public breastfeeding. Why do you put 'right' in quotes as if it's presupposed? I don't have the 'right' to whip out my dong and jack off in public, which is just as natural an act as breastfeeding. So Venezuelans have different hangups than most Americans. Big deal! It's not that hard to find more discreet ways to feed your child. You, and I, may be fine with public breastfeeding, but why should you presume that it should be ok with everyone?

Cultural relativism is weak, and even harmful, when carried to its extremes, but it's useful whenever you get the impulse to assert that one culture with values close to yours is inherently better or more advanced than another with different values. Sometimes it all really is just relative.


Kitsune  Tuesday Feb 15 06:04 PM

I find this a really tough balance to deal with in public. Firstly, infants shouldn't be permitted in a number of public places, such as the movie theater, etc, but, if stuffing their mouth with some boob gets them to be quiet, I'm all for it.

It's just, you know, some breasts aren't meant to be seen. And even the good ones get mixed emotion out of me when there's a squirming, squealing, poop-machine parasite trying to deflate it for all its worth.



jinx  Tuesday Feb 15 06:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasviper
I don't have the 'right' to whip out my dong and jack off in public, which is just as natural an act as breastfeeding.... It's not that hard to find more discreet ways to feed your child.
Instead of comparing an infant eating to yourself jacking off, why not compare it to yourself eating - because, well, that makes more sense. It wouldn't be hard for you to feed yourself more discreetly, but why would you? And if you don't feel the need to hide when you eat, why should you expect an infant to? They don't give a fuck who sees them.


Happy Monkey  Tuesday Feb 15 06:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jinx
In the US we still have women having to fight for the 'right' to breastfeed in public and dealing with rude remarks from people suggesting she should 'do that' in the the bathroom
I'm not willing to eat in a public restroom, and I certainly wouldn't want my baby to.


slang  Tuesday Feb 15 06:50 PM

Looks like a nice set. Lucky lil' guy there.



Kitsune  Tuesday Feb 15 07:01 PM

I think its about time for a protest. (too obscure of a reference?)



garnet  Tuesday Feb 15 07:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsune
I think its about time for a protest. (too obscure of a reference?)
I'm embarrassed to admit that I know where that reference is from--my ex was a huge Married With Children fan, and he thought that show was completely hysterical. One of his many annoying habits.

But anyway, I have mixed feelings about the public breastfeeding thing. Sure it'd be great if women could do that and nobody gave it a second thought. But we live in the good ol' USA, the same country that freaked out about seeing Janet Jackson's boob exposed for a nanosecond. People are way too uptight about that stuff here, and it only seems to be getting worse.

Personally, I saw a woman breastfeeding at a restaurant recently, and to be perfectly honest it made me a little nauseous. More power to her for taking care of her baby's needs and having the balls (so to speak) to do it in public, but I'm just not so sure I want to see it all over the place.


richlevy  Tuesday Feb 15 08:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jinx
Because you just don't see it enough, right? If it were a common sight I doubt you'd give it a second thought.
Are you proposing an experiment?


Trilby  Tuesday Feb 15 08:54 PM

I think it is possible to breastfeed in public and be so discreet that no one really notices. Obviously, discretion is not something this woman was going for.



Kitsune  Tuesday Feb 15 09:48 PM

I think it is possible to breastfeed in public and be so discreet that no one really notices.

Well, there is certainly a way to do it that make cause no one to care: feed the kid some formula from a bottle. Whatever happened to that method?

I think women should have the right to breastfeed in public, but I think its rude to do so. Just like other natural acts we humans have to do (breastfeeding, changing diapers, talking on the cellphone, having sex) I feel it should be handled in the bathroom instead of a public environment.

Interesting thought: is breast milk considered a potential biological contaminant? It is a fluid secretion from the body....



Happy Monkey  Tuesday Feb 15 10:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsune
Interesting thought: is breast milk considered a potential biological contaminant? It is a fluid secretion from the body....
So's sweat.


jinx  Tuesday Feb 15 11:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsune

Well, there is certainly a way to do it that make cause no one to care: feed the kid some formula from a bottle. Whatever happened to that method?
Formula is a substitute for breastmilk, not the other way around, and there are risks involved with using it. Suggesting women should buy and use a product (that has risks involved with using it) because you have a boob hang-up is ridiculous. Just don't look. Shield your eyes, run screaming from the room... whatever you gotta do it's probably safe and free.


World Health Organization recommends

Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="440"> <tbody><tr><td class="header10" valign="top" width="100%">Exclusive Breastfeeding </td> </tr> <tr> <td height="10" valign="top" width="100%">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="text" valign="top" width="100%"> Breastfeeding is an unequalled way of providing ideal food for the healthy growth and development of infants; it is also an integral part of the reproductive process with important implications for the health of mothers. A recent review of evidence has shown that, on a population basis, exclusive breastfeeding for 6 months is the optimal way of feeding infants. Thereafter infants should receive complementary foods with continued breastfeeding up to 2 years of age or beyond.

To enable mothers to establish and sustain exclusive breastfeeding for 6 months, WHO and UNICEF recommend:

  • Initiation of breastfeeding within the first hour of life
  • Exclusive breastfeeding – that is the infant only receives breastmilk without any additional food or drink, not even water
  • Breastfeeding on demand – that is as often as the child wants, day and night
  • No use of bottles, teats or pacifiers
Breastmilk is the natural first food for babies, it provides all the energy and nutrients that the infant needs for the first months of life, and it continues to provide up to half or more of a child’s nutritional needs during the second half of the first year, and up to one-third during the second year of life.

Breastmilk promotes sensory and cognitive development, and protects the infant against infectious and chronic diseases. Exclusive breastfeeding reduces infant mortality due to common childhood illnesses such as diarrhoea or pneumonia, and helps for a quicker recovery during illness. These effects can be measured in resource-poor and affluent societies (Kramer M et al Promotion of Breastfeeding Intervention Trial (PROBIT): A randomized trial in the Republic of Belarus. Journal of the American Medical Association, 2001, 285 (4): 413-420)

Breastfeeding contributes to the health and well-being of mothers, it helps to space children, reduces the risk of ovarian cancer and breast cancer, increases family and national resources, is a secure way of feeding and is safe for the environment.


</td></tr></tbody> </table>



Elspode  Wednesday Feb 16 12:09 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsune
Just like other natural acts we humans have to do (breastfeeding, changing diapers, talking on the cellphone, having sex) I feel it should be handled in the bathroom instead of a public environment.
You know, I was just thinking that I didn't get enough sex in the bathroom...


xoxoxoBruce  Wednesday Feb 16 04:57 AM

There's a large group that supports women breast feeding in public. It's called
men.



Griff  Wednesday Feb 16 07:28 AM

I was gonna rant on this but jinx took care of pretty much all the arguments. I think this impulse to hide the real function of breasts is probably some remnant of the a middle-class 50's hide your woman in the house, better living through chemistry, culture. Thats over now, move on. Breast milk is more available, cheaper, easier to digest, and designed by (evolution) (God) whatever to provide everything your baby needs (and it takes the baby weight off!). Of course these are just the thoughts of someone who was raised in a conservative Catholic household and was breastfed in church every Sunday as a baby. I'm still waiting for someone to photo shop W into that picture.



404Error  Wednesday Feb 16 09:13 AM

How about LJ instead. :p

(Sorry, quick and crude job but you get the picture.)



garnet  Wednesday Feb 16 09:37 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 404Error
How about LJ instead.
That's hilarious! Good job!


dar512  Wednesday Feb 16 10:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey
So's sweat.
Breast milk is sweat -- of a sort. Breasts are a variety of sweat gland.

*trivia man strikes again*


dar512  Wednesday Feb 16 10:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisinhouston
What's with the baby's shoes?
Kids take them off. Parents have to keep track of them. It's a time-honored tradition.


elf  Wednesday Feb 16 12:54 PM

I agree and disagree here. Yes, discression is called for - mostly because here in the US, breasts are considered sexual. This does not mean, however, that breastfeeding should be hidden or shoved off into the restroom. There's absolutely nothing sexual about it whatsoever, aside from people seeing a boob and thinking, 'ooh! Sex!' (which is the biggest reason it makes so many people uncomfortable, I think)

Discression is as easy as a little baby blanket thrown over the shoulder, a shawl, a wide scarf, or shirts that are made with vents in them so as not to be hanging out all over or drawing attention to yourself. I nursed my babies just about wherever I went. I don't think many people ever noticed, much less became uncomfortable around me.



Elspode  Wednesday Feb 16 01:25 PM

Drat...I can't post my response to all of this because of the 'net nanny. It is hard to discuss this topic while under the Big Brother scanner.



CharlieG  Wednesday Feb 16 02:03 PM

RE vented shirts - that's what my wife used. It was funny, the other week I was having a conversation with someone, and didn't even realize she was breast feeding her baby until the kid stopped. It can be VERY descrete. I thought the kid was just snuggled up.

Anyway - totally natural, and doesn't bother me - I end up looking at the kid more than the teat



russotto  Wednesday Feb 16 02:15 PM

How do we know the President isn't telling the lady off for breastfeeding in public?

Anyway, if women want to breastfeed in public WITHOUT COMPLAINT from men, they're going to have to let men do what THEY do with breasts (i.e. ogle them) in public WITHOUT COMPLAINT.

Yeah, that'll happen.



lumberjim  Wednesday Feb 16 02:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 404Error
How about LJ instead. :p

(Sorry, quick and crude job but you get the picture.)
right on!


jinx  Wednesday Feb 16 03:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by russotto
Yeah, that'll happen.
It'll happen shortly after men are comfortable being ogled when they get out of a cold pool in a Speedo I think.
No one likes to be ogled when they aren't making a good showing, do they? I mean, what kind of response are you looking for when you ogle a breastfeeding mom?


undone  Wednesday Feb 16 04:27 PM

Doesn't it embarrass you as men to be staring at a stranger's boob? I have to question the maturity level of anyone who can't stop himself from staring at someone else's body part. I am baffled by anyone who would recommend a woman feed her child a man made powdered formula chock full of preservatives simply because he can't be a grown up and take the situation for what it is. A woman providing nourishment for her child. Geez, go get yourself a playboy and hide in the bathroom you are so fond of.



Nightsong  Wednesday Feb 16 05:00 PM

Personnally I have no problem with public breast feeding though I do admitt I can see a balance point that most women cover with a blanket while doing so. I actually find it far more rude in public to have unruly loud and obnoxios kids and not do a damned thing to curb them. I am not just talking the look we are haveing some fun at the store crowd. I mean those yelling, running up and down the aisles, knocking things over, screaming at their own parent types that you want to pick up by their feet and spank then give their parents a good swat for not teaching the kids any public manners.
TO the breastfeeding thing. SOmeone said it and it is the Deitys honest truth. Our country is obsessed with skin. what do you expect from the (generally speaking) decendents of a people thrown out of their England for being up tight.



garnet  Wednesday Feb 16 05:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightsong
I actually find it far more rude in public to have unruly loud and obnoxios kids and not do a damned thing to curb them.
YES! Very good point...


capnhowdy  Wednesday Feb 16 05:55 PM

Breasts....... why are people so hung up about it? I'm rather partial to them, myself.

Tell me - Why can a male go around all day with no shirt and noone notices, and a female can flash a breast for a second and everyone wants to have a shit fit. Let's get real here. A breast is a breast, no matter how large or small it may be. And why is a woman's breast automatically corelated to sex? What do they have to do (directly) with the actual act of having sex? You fondle the breast to stimulate your partner. You don't "fuck" the breast, so what's the big deal? I reckon next some asshole will start saying a person's lip's are a vulgar sight. After all, you usually carress the lips as a stimulation also.
I've heard that a man's attraction to women's breasts is a subconsious longing to be cuddled by his mom, like in infancy. Maybe all men are really " Momma's Boys"........



Kitsune  Wednesday Feb 16 06:58 PM

You don't "fuck" the breast, so what's the big deal?

Who says?



hampor  Wednesday Feb 16 07:20 PM

bottle is not as good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsune
feed the kid some formula from a bottle. Whatever happened to that method?
The problem there is that babies can suffer what is called nipple confusion. The action is different, and some babies ignore the breast later on. On top of that, the mother can get pretty uncomfortable if you skip a feeding.

One thing that the books never mention is cracked nipples. Imagine the worst cracked chapped lip that you've ever had. Then imagine if it were on your nipple and someone chewed on it every two hours. Yeow!!!


xoxoxoBruce  Wednesday Feb 16 09:40 PM

Basics...Why do women’s breasts protrude more than men’s (generally) do?
Hello....it’s to attract men’s attention. Mature men’s attention.
Absolutely flat chested women can feed their children. The rest is for us. So don’t be ragging on us for doing what comes naturally. You wave ‘em and we’ll salute.

I was allergic to my mother’s milk. Damn near killed me before they figured it out.



lookout123  Wednesday Feb 16 11:25 PM

Quote:
You fondle the breast to stimulate your partner. You don't "fuck" the breast, so what's the big deal?
never heard of "russian" i'm guessing?


capnhowdy  Thursday Feb 17 07:27 AM

OK....... so you CAN fuck the breast. There are probably other orfices & crevices that would suffice. People don't freak out when they are in plain sight, though. That is my point.
FACTOID: It is easier to fuck TWO breasts. I got it on my first try.............



capnhowdy  Thursday Feb 17 07:33 AM

I'd like for once to hear a woman say, as a topless guy sachets by, " Hot damn! ; look at the tits on that dude!"



LabRat  Thursday Feb 17 10:07 AM

Personally I never got any responses (that I noticed anyway) good or bad when I nursed in public. I just covered us up with a blankie and away we went. I have a right to feed my child, who has a right to eat when she's hungry. But I also respected the right of others to not have to be subjected to something that makes them uncomfortable. Now, if fat women in spandex would only learn to cover up...



russotto  Thursday Feb 17 10:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jinx
I mean, what kind of response are you looking for when you ogle a breastfeeding mom?
You misunderstand, I mean ogling in general, not when they're breastfeeding.
Besides, unlike men coming out of a cold pool in a speedo (and any guy willing to go IN to a cold pool in a speedo is already a bit off, if you ask me), women's breasts don't get SMALLER when they breastfeed.


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