6/23/2003: Bloody antler trade

In the distant land of Gorny Altai, Russia, somewhere in Siberia near Mongolia, the locals steal the antlers from the local deer. They do this not because they like antler-less deer, but because there is a big trade in antlers. Here they lead a stag into this strange contraption which stops it from moving at all.



They saw the antlers off with a regular hand saw.



A few of the locals surprise the tourists with this practice, which probably gives the stag a chance to return some bad karma through blood-borne disease and parasites.

Remarkably, this is the major export in this region of the world. The antlers go mostly to Asia for use in traditional medicines. (The stag lives on, none the worse for it all.)

Reuters feature story

NONE the worse?

I wouln't say "none the worse". He probably feels pretty bad for a while, and gets no hot does that year.

This could be bad in the sense that the antlers havn't fallen off naturally. If they'renot swabbing the end with antibiotics, it would be nice to see them smear the end with latex paint to seal it. Preferably not white latex...

I read the article and it mentions

"Some deer die from shock during the de-horning but in this case the stag's stumps were treated with salt and the animal was released back into the lush mountains to grow new antlers -- which one day will be culled again."

So, some are the worse for it and how about a nice dash of salt on the fresh wound!

The article also mentions that some Russians mix the blood with vodka. Not surprising as they seem to mix vodka with everything! Really brings meaning to a Bloody Mary.

Besides messing with the deer's mind, I wonder how this practice effects things like mating. Typically male deer and other horned mammals grow horns as part of the courtship ritual when finding a companion to mate with. I would imagine that this deer will be sitting the season out.

Lot of mixed up info in this article. Antler and horn are not interchangable and I don't believe either one has nerves so pain is not an issue as far as the cutting or salt goes. The bleeding from the neck is a common practice in many parts of the world for domestic livestock. They call them farms but I think they're more free range herds than what we consider farms. Damage to the animals psyche would be the same as an escape from a bear or lion or maybe branding. Aren't blood baths a russian tradition since 1918? Why is that kid in the back smiling?

Unfortunately, I don't think that's correct. Before deer antlers get hard, they are a live appendage and cause considerable pain when lopped off. Check out this exerpt from here:

<blockquote>Antlers are defined as the appendages which grow annually from the pedicle formation of the frontal bone of deer. They are therefore quite unlike the horns of cattle, sheep and goats, which do not regrow if removed correctly. Antlers also develop and mature in a manner different to horns and broadly two stages of antler development are recognised: velvet antler and hard antler.

Velvet antler is defined as growing antler which contains an abundant blood and nerve supply and which has a fully intact skin with a covering of fine soft hair. The surgical removal of velvet antler without some form of anaesthesia will cause pain and distress to the animal.

Hard antler is the antler when growth has ceased, calcification has occurred, and the skin,nerve and blood supply are no longer functional. This is when the antler has no live skin at its base. Hard antler can be removed above the pedicle without causing any pain or bleeding. Hard antlers are shed naturally just before new velvet antlers begin to develop from the pedicle.</blockquote>

Frankly, I find this disgusting.

Yes the guy standing in the back ground does look very suspicious and devious. Dirty Russian

Eastern woodies

I am surprised no one has commented on the "medicine" that is made from the deer antlers. They are used to cure Bob Dole's problem:E.D. It is all about the male erection industry, don't you know.

FYI: The Jackson Hole boy scout troop is the richest boy scout troop in the nation, by far. Each year, the boy scouts are allowed to collect the antlers left on the ground at the national elk preserve.

I personaly can't attest to deer or elk antler's efficacy. Since most of Asia is horny for the stuff, it is probably more than a wives tail.

Dirty Russian

"Dirty Russian"
That's when you mix the deer blood and vodka and the olive juice together and a shot of Tabasco!

YUM

I'm a meat eater, but I do care about how the animals feel. I'm trying to be better. Really.

For example, take one of the most common foods these days - chicken. The conditions they're brought up in at places like Perdue and Tyson are pretty fuckin' bad. So then I read about this place called Bell & Evans, who lets chickens reach their slaughter size naturally, without any hormones or anything. They're kept in roomy and comfy places instead of being packed into one of those football-field sized cages that holds god knows how many. Everything about their chicken raising is humane. Now, the chicken costs more, but it's not prohibitively expensive, and I have a relatively clean conscience when I bite down into a burrito packed with their meat. We <b>are</b> higher on the food chain, and I have no problem with eating animals. But if there's a more humane way to do the whole raise & slaughter thing (and there is), I'm all for it.

More info at http://www.bellandevans.com

Also, nothing can beat the taste of naturally raised chicken. Their eggs are delicious, too.

Hmm... omelette.

Well, I happen to agree. It's a better taste, to me. But honestly, I like any chicken. My main reason for eating Bell & Evans is that they do (mostly) right by the chicken, and I want to support that.

That's very nice of yours. To me, it's all about the taste

That's why most of these huge enclosures are dark. Chickens freak out in the light.

the other option is to use only red light. then they don't know when their random pecking actually draws blood (which would then cause a problem). So since its all red all the time they act fine.

Though you'd think they'd go nuts eventually (if chickens are capable of that). Sorta like the Seinfeld with the Kenny Rogers Roasters sign across the street.

Quote:

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce That makes us even. The problem with chickens in a roomy environment is they like to beat each other up. I met a man that made a fortune making plastic chicken coop window covers that filtered the light so the chickens could not see red. If a chickens see blood on another chicken, they'll peck it to death.

They don't actually cut their beaks off. Debeaking is a myth.

Usually cattle are killed with a captive bolt mechanism. "Stun guns" are used for milking bulls, if you know what I mean.

Anyway, cattle are very tasty (especially a nice porterhouse), chickens are less tasty but still good if prepared correctly, and I'm not losing any sleep over eating either one.

The video is only true if you believe it to be.

I present to you further evidence of this phenomenon:

http://www.cellar.org/showthread.php...6520#post46520

(Read from that post to the end of the thread.)

We should teach our children, from a very early age to begin chasing down and killing chickens with their bare hands. Mom will gladly prepare it for the child once its dead, but the children need to understand where the food comes from.

Anyone wanna go cow huntin?

Oh, I see you were just trying to get back at Quzah for not believing you have ten fingers. I read that thread before, but I didn't want to get into it.

I must say I still don't believe debeaking is a myth. But, for what it's worth, I believe you have ten fingers.

I raised cattle, pigs, sheep, chickens, turkeys, rabbits and horses.
Always took care of them. Cleaned, primped, showed, fed and cleaned up after them, every day. Always treated them like family. They were very nice. Nicer than people. Then I ate them, except the horses.

I don't think I could eat horse normally.

Chickens are stupid. Dumber than cows. And there were all the things the native americans said about the stupidity of the settler's livestock... They not only have to be debeaked, but de-stacked too. Yes, chickens will stack on top each other until the bottom ones die. I don't really feel bad about something as stupid as a chicken dying.

More people still die from not eating at all than die from those things...

Says you. Starvation is a myth.

You've clearly not spent that much time around the severely retarded.

Wasn't it the head of PETA who said something along the lines of "If I was on a sinking ship and had the choice of saving a smart dog or a retarded baby, I'd save the dog?"

Botulism is most often associated with green beans. Salmonella can also be vegetable-borne.

As for Mad Cow, I stay away from offal. Steak doesn't contain brain.

what's worse: humanely killing one domesticated cow to get 300 pounds of meat, or brutally murdering thousands of innocent, wild insects for one stinking tomato?

Quote:

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce what's worse: humanely killing one domesticated cow to get 300 pounds of meat, or brutally murdering thousands of innocent, wild insects for one stinking tomato?

Quote:

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce what's worse: humanely killing one domesticated cow to get 300 pounds of meat, or brutally murdering thousands of innocent, wild insects for one stinking tomato?

Quote:

Originally posted by quzah Good for you. Honestly, I don't feel bad when I hear about people dying from Mad Cow, Salmonella, Botulism, either. But then, to each his own I always say. Quzah.

I'm sure we would have heard more about it if that suggestion came to anything.

Plant Killer!!

Those four pointy teeth we have say we're omnivores by design, built to be able to rip and rend flesh. Being able to live well without using meat as a protein source is the true luxury, a testament to our adaptability as a species.

I think having a meat bag to predigest all that icky grain is a true luxury. HEY COW! Peel me a grape.

Quote:

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce I think having a meat bag to predigest all that icky grain is a true luxury. HEY COW! Peel me a grape.

Gorillas eat nothing but leaves all day. If you want to be like them, go ahead. They're lethargic and lay around all day because they don't have any energy. They also eat their own poop, so as to give the leaves a second round through their digestive system.

If we all become vegetarians, we may well eat our own poop in 100,000 years. Think about it.

I'd like to apply that to other arguments. "Issuing unconstitutional Executive Orders will eventually lead to us all eating our own poop!"

Quote:

Originally posted by bmgb Yeah, there is no defense for celery.

I'm going to learn this song one day, because it is so fucking funny...I would, in fact, be happy to post it in my webspace and send you guys the link if you'd like to hear it.


"Carrot Juice is Murder" by The Arrogant Worms

listen up brothers and sisters come hear my desperate tale
i speak of our friends of nature trapped in the dirt like a jail
vegetables live in oppression, served on our tables each night
this killing of veggies is madness, i say we take up the fight
salads are only for murderers, coleslaw's a fascist regime
don't think that they don't have feelings, just cause a radish can't scream

Chorus:
i've heard the screams of the vegetables (scream, scream, scream)
watching their skins being peeled (having their insides revealed)
grated and steamed with no mercy (burning off calories)
how do you think that feels (that it hurts really bad)
Carrot juice constitutes murder (and that's a real crime)
Greenhouses prisons for slaves (let my vegetables go)
it's time to stop all this gardening (it's dirty as hell)
let's call a spade a spade (is a spade is a spade is a spade)

I saw a man eating celery, so i beat him black and blue
if he ever touches a sprout again, i'll bite him clean in two
i'm a political prisonner, trapped in a windowless cage
cause i stopped the slaughter of turnips by killing five men in a rage
i told the judge when he sentenced me "this is my finest hour"
i'd kill those farmers again just to save one more cauliflower

Chorus

how low as people do we dare to stoop,
making young broccolis bleed in the soup
untie your beans, uncage your tomatoes
let potted plants free, don't mash that potato
oh spare the spud! Eat a cow instead!

I've heard the screams of the vegetables (scream, scream, scream)
watching their skins being peeled (fates in the stir-fry are sealed)
grated and steamed with no mercy (you fat gourmet slob)
how do you think that feels (leave them out in the field)
Carrot juice constitutes murder (V8's genocide)
greenhouses prisons for slaves (yes, your composts are graves)
it's time to stop all this gardening (take up macrame)
let's call a spade a spade
(is a spade, is a spade, is a spade, is a spade......)

Power to the peas! Give peas a chance!
all we are saying, is give peas a chance

OK, there was no particular hew and cry to hear this, but here it is anyway...

http://www.lunalushede.org/songs/Arr... Is Murder.mp3

A filet mignon looks pretty smart to me. But, alas, if you add à la crème de champignon flambé au cognac it looks even smarter.

Quote:

Originally posted by bmgb Yeah, there is no defense for celery.

Of course there's a difference. Scientists have no idea why dogs do it, but they do know why wolves and gorillas do it. You don't think it can be done for different reasons?

Again, I never said anything about stupidity. Intelligence doesn't figure into my argument at all

I'm not sure what your point is with the links. Yes, people do crazy shit when they can't get proper nutrition. That's my entire point.

Also, gorillas are apes, not monkeys.

I eat meat because I want to, but hey this is America and I'll defend to the death your right to eat shit.

Quote:

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce the whole family for holiday meals are important. Too important for leaves and poo.