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   xoxoxoBruce  Wednesday Aug 2 02:26 AM

Aug 2nd, 2017: Oil is a Gas

Around 1885 Joseph Newton Pew (You’ve heard of the Pew Foundation) founded the Sun Oil Co., in the southeast corner of PA.
Of course oil had been discovered at the other end of PA for Sun Oil to refine into lubricants and kerosene.

And then… and then… The SS Paraguay delivered the first shipment of 19,231 barrels of crude, oil that is, black gold, Texas tea.
PA had oil, Texas had shiploads. Houdry developed the catalytic cracker process in the 1930s, Sun Oil was off and running.
During the big one, WW II, Sun shipped 41 million barrels over 2.3 million miles of ocean, losing 4 tankers and 141 men to subs.
But the refinery business changed, major brands pulled out and refineries were closed, the business left to independents.
Sun's huge area of picnic tables and softball fields is now an office park. The recreation center across the street with it’s yuge
gymnasiums, is now a movie studio, Yes Sun was setting around here.

And then… and then… fracking. Sun’s Marcus Hook Refinery lives as the perfect place to process the natural gas liquids, then
distribute them to the huddled masses. Export a lot too, because some huddled masses pay better than others.

The fly in the ointment is the refinery sits on the Delaware river and the frackers are hither and yon. Aha, Sun had a 350 mile,
8” petroleum pipeline to Ohio. Refurbish that puppy, call it Mariner 1 (damifino), and transport 70,000 barrels a day
of liquid propane and ethane. Chicken feed. Now Sunoco Logistics decides to spend a few $Billion to build a parallel pipeline
across the state. Mariner 2, a 20 inch high pressure line will carry 275,000 gallons a day… to start.

To refurbish an existing line is one thing but building a new line is a regulatory nightmare with so many jurisdictions, especially
down here with dense populations. But Sun has money and clout, so a lot of the local politicians rolled over, in clover.
After a bunch of eminent domains and creek polluting stuff the obvious solution was to change their name.
So Sunoco Logistics married Energy Transfer Partners (ever hear of Standing Rock) and took his name

But there’s always some fussbudgets who want to stand in the way of profit er, progress
Like the people in these apartment buildings are all pissy about a 20 inch, high pressure pipe carrying big badaboom stuff less
than 75 feet from their home. Love it or leave it ya hippies.

Mariner 2 will cross Chester Creek less than a quarter mile from me. The two lane road winds along the creek and the dry side is
steep banks, yuge trees, and rock cliffs 50+ feet high. Today they installed a 4 ft concrete barrier, with 4 ft of chainlink on top,
down the middle of the road , and a sign at the end saying, “NO WIDE LOADS”.
Guess they’re gonna put a hurtin' on that rock.


SPUCK  Wednesday Aug 2 04:04 AM

Interesting stuff that. Keep us posted. Neat to see the path thru reality. Ah'hem, glad it's not mine.

xoxoxoBruce  Wednesday Aug 2 11:52 AM

I'll try to get some pictures but security around the construction is really tight and I might have to get academy award nomination pushy and obnoxious. I do have a PA carry permit though.

Gravdigr  Wednesday Aug 2 12:05 PM

If they get assholey on ya, just snap some pictures of the assholes, post 'em here, and we'll 'shop 'em up proper.

That'll learn 'em.

And Spuck's right. Interesting stuff.

Gravdigr  Wednesday Aug 2 12:18 PM

Just GoogleEarthing the joint...Man, there's a big damn hole a couple miles north of Chester Heights. And by big, I mean deep. Sorta. I guess I just wasn't expecting to see a spot in Pennsylvania 187 feet below sea level. In Pennsylvania.

Attachment 61428

Attachment 61430

Am I reading that right? Does that -187 ft indicate below sea level?

xoxoxoBruce  Wednesday Aug 2 12:29 PM

Sand and gravel deposit left from when the Alleghenies were as big as the Rockies. South Jersey and Delaware are sand bars from those mountains. I'm a hundred miles from the Jersey shore and the creek behind my house is 35 feet above sea level, the house less than 50.

xoxoxoBruce  Wednesday Aug 2 11:17 PM

It was raining today which messed me up, but cleared this afternoon so I tried to get some pictures. Where the stop sign dude
was standing I parked on the opposite shoulder and walked on. He didn’t try to stop me but immediately got on his walkie talkie
telling them a man with a camera on foot. So around the bend about a hundred yards is dude #2 at the end of the new concrete
divider, also informing the NSA/KGB of my movements. I didn’t challenge him because to go futher me and the traffic would be
sharing 10 feet. This shall NOT be a suicide mission.
I lied, the concrete is only 3 feet not 4, but the chainlink is much more than 4 ft, maybe 8.

So I go back to the truck and make sure I’m the last in line, make a quick stop at the main activity, snap a picture and
drop the camera on the seat. I'm such a clever monkey. I couldn’t dawdle because the exit stop sign dude and traffic
waiting to go could see me. You know, bad form to delay pickups headed for the gun club.
I get home and download the camera to show the picture above and a nice shot of the passenger door panel.
The shutter was delayed for some reason.

If I walked down the other side of the creek, or even along the sort of bank on the near side, I could probably get a pretty good shot,
but my knees and balance won’t permit that. I haven't given up though.

Smell sawdust burning? That’s because I’ve been thinking and have come up with a scenario.
My guess is they will dig a pit at the bottom of the cliff then start a ways back from the top and angle bore to the pit.
Then turn around and bore under the creek. But that’s a guess.

SPUCK  Wednesday Aug 2 11:37 PM

Wow Bruce that's some fast recon work!

I don't understand why they didn't just run the second line along the same right-of-way as the first one. Isn't that MUCH simpler?

xoxoxoBruce  Thursday Aug 3 12:12 AM

Damifino, something like 80 % of the 350 miles they run together on the same right of way. But in Delaware County you see what happened. It may be when the 8 inch line that became Mariner 1 was constructed the impact of private wells/water supplies wasn't considered. For Mariner 2 the state permits are very strict about that. I'm guessing. Maybe following the Mariner 1 route the money would go into the wrong political party pockets.

glatt  Thursday Aug 3 08:22 AM

A quarter mile from your house, huh?

Attachment 61435

The houses in the woods off in the distance a ways are .29 miles from this pipeline road crossing just outside Appomatox, VA.

Undertoad  Thursday Aug 3 08:32 AM

Here's the alternative

glatt  Thursday Aug 3 08:37 AM

Sure. For now.

There's also this alternative coming soon.

Attachment 61436

xoxoxoBruce  Thursday Aug 3 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
I noticed when the protests against the Dakota Access Pipeline started picking up, at least the media coverage did, there was a spike in petroleum carrying rail car accidents. This may be the result like plane crashes of the media paying more attention to what's happening. Knowing the biggest benefactor of oil moved by rail is Warren Buffet, and the pipelines would kill his windfall, made me sit up and anticipate the next broadcast.
Pipelines are probably safer than railcars but we're comparing Crude Oil to liquid Butane/Ethtane.

After considerable maneuvering during two trips, I got two good shots of the area where I speculated the dig will be. Seeing it has me even more convinced I'm right. I could also hear a big racket up on the hill somewhere. I'll bet it's the boring machine at work.
Got home, downloaded, no new pictures but half the pictures I deleted from the camera yesterday are back. That's it. Mr Olympus, let me introduce you to Mr Wesson. Never met Mr Smith, but personally known the last three Mr Wessons... prepare to die. I still have Mr Kodak but I don't see my fat fingers, or any other fat things, shrinking in the immediate future.
I've been delaying a smart phone but may be a better option than replacing Mr Olympus.

Looking at all the online information, both pro and con, the routing, technology, and politics for Mariner-2 are fucking amazing. Hopefully it will have a big payback in the future, financially for S.E. PA, and ecologically for the globe.
But Mr Olympus is still history unless I find it has a suck function.
I'll keep you posted as best I can.

Undertoad  Friday Aug 4 12:19 AM

They say Chester County is horrified by it

xoxoxoBruce  Friday Aug 4 12:56 AM

It gets muddy when they start mixing bentonite leakage with a leaking pipeline. The bentonite is a lubricant for the horizontal drilling, and non toxic, although it can cloud the water for a spell. It could leak at anytime due to geology.
But equating the bentonite with a pipeline leak is stupid. Think, a pipeline leak would cost them money, they'll do all they can to prevent that.

“Mommy, what’s in that pipeline" and "Mommy, are you going to keep us safe?”
Give me a fucking break. Just tell them it's gas and it's cool. Why the fuck would you want to project your paranoia on the kids?
I'm concerned about the well contamination because I have a well... duh.
The Canadian geese? Fuck those wetback flying pigs. Anyone concerned about them, hasn't had to live with them. Die feathery scum.

SPUCK  Friday Aug 4 04:37 AM

Interesting article to cover your question of safety via trains/pipelines.


And yes Bruce do consider using a smart-phone camera in lue of buying another camera.

My Samsung S6 takes very sharp pictures very quickly. The closeups are amazing and very helpful. I find myself taking pictures of all sorts of stuff just so I can more easily read it clear and zoomed.

The only time it takes inferior pictures is things like sunsets. They're washed out pretty badly, which is odd to me because I never see color issues on non-sunset pictures.

I'd suggest you go to a place like

and get an S6, or S7. You'll save a fortune over getting the latest and frankly after about S4 they're all very good.

I got my better half an S5 and she loves it and because I didn't buy it from Verizon they charge me $20/mo less as a "convert" rather than a standard customer.

Undertoad  Friday Aug 4 08:22 AM

Why the fuck would you want to project your paranoia on the kids?
I noticed the hell out of that. But it's stock in trade man, that's what they do. Very important for the cause.

I will always remember a play we did in 5th grade, for the entire grade. There was an actual gas mask as a prop, and one kid put it on, and the audience of children was told this would be what all kids would have to do, in order to play outside, in ten years.

Gas masks, so weird with their big eyes and weird trumpety mouth, are terrifying to kids... we were all pretty shocked. I remember that lesson completely, even today: by 1982, it will be THAT BAD.

But I'm sure many of us just grew up and realized that this is how it works, we should be scaring the shit out of the children. It's good for them, like hitting them with sticks was good for the previous generations.

xoxoxoBruce  Friday Aug 4 09:09 AM

Holy shit, SPUCK, that Forbes article has so much information I'm going to have to take notes. Good find.

UT, do you think those gasmask type scares have more people disbelieving scientists today.

Undertoad  Friday Aug 4 11:23 AM

No look at those panicky moms and the panicky moms everywhere. I think they took the lesson in wholesale and remain frightened today.

Happy Monkey  Friday Aug 4 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
Rail is better. Even if they increase the number of cars, it's still going to be a bottleneck both in quantity and cost. Plus the increased revenue to the railways for new infrastructure helps everyone who ships or travels by rail, while a pipeline is single-purpose.

xoxoxoBruce  Friday Aug 4 12:17 PM

Money Money Money, it's alway about the Money.

Like always, it will probably come down to money. And it won’t be about jobs (Pipeline Jobs), regardless of which end of the spectrum you believe, because there just isn’t enough jobs to matter compared to the value of the oil itself and the refinery capacity. It’s simply cheaper and quicker to transport by pipeline than by rail or by truck. The difference in cost is about $50 billion a year for shipping via the Keystone versus rail, totally eclipsing any economic effect of jobs in either direction.

xoxoxoBruce  Saturday Aug 5 09:12 PM

They have cleared the flat where I think they will dig the hole for the machine to bore under the creek cleared out.
To the left is the rock I thought they would bore under.

But they are also working to the right of the flat, and up behind that is the gun club... hmm.

So I drove up the club driveway and lo and behold a pit and machinery.

I didn't get closer because I don't want to become a persona non grata just yet. Apparently I guessed wrong and the line went
around the club and will come down to the flat from the right side avoiding the ledge completely.

glatt  Monday Aug 7 08:48 AM


I thought of this thread over the weekend as I was on a whirlwind trip up to NJ.

I've driven this stretch of road countless times. It's the major route up the East Coast if you are taking the Commodore Barry Bridge and 295 to avoid the tolls on the turnpike in New Jersey.

EVERY SINGLE TIME I come to this particular block in Chester county, and I'm flying by on the highway I spend those 10 seconds or so just looking at this neighborhood and feeling such empathy for the poor sad souls who live in these houses. Can you imagine what it's like for them? A steady stream of trucks and cars 15 feet from their front doors flying by at 70MPH. Seven lanes of them. Non-stop. 24 hours a day.

I must have driven this 400 foot stretch of highway 30 times or more. Maybe 50 times.

Those poor poor bastards. Can you imagine?
Attachment 61455

Undertoad  Monday Aug 7 10:19 AM

I drive that section regularly and there's a very good chance it will be on my commute next year

I believe that quality replacement windows are the solution to that kind of problem, as quality replacement windows can reduce sound by an amazing amount. I also believe that the people living right there do not have the coin for any replacement windows.

They have a bigger problem in that they live in Chester. Usually on the list of the Worst Places In America.

Clodfobble  Monday Aug 7 10:30 AM

Surely those are all rentals as well. They'd be relying on slum lords to install them, even more unlikely.

glatt  Monday Aug 7 11:15 AM

A little more from their perspective.

Attachment 61456

xoxoxoBruce  Monday Aug 7 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by glatt View Post

EVERY SINGLE TIME I come to this particular block in Chester county, and I'm flying by on the highway I spend those 10 seconds or so just looking at this neighborhood and feeling such empathy for the poor sad souls who live in these houses.
Delaware County, isn't it?

glatt  Monday Aug 7 11:38 AM

Yeah. Probably. It says Chester on the map, but maybe that's the township. It's just south of the Commodore Barry Bridge. Like half a mile.

xoxoxoBruce  Monday Aug 7 11:54 AM

OK, you come up I-95 and cross the Barry to I-295 going north. How do you come back south?

Coming north the NJ turnpike would be $4.35 to say Bordontown/Trenton. South bound would be $4.35 plus $4 for the DE Memorial, but the Barry would be $5.

glatt  Monday Aug 7 12:11 PM

Depends on the trip, but usually the same way but in reverse. You get the toll on the bridge, but skip most of the toll on the turnpike.

On this trip, we never went over that bridge. Went up along the Delaware river and crossed a tiny bridge by Frenchtown. Went to Spruce Run Recreation Area (don't ever go here) and Beneduce Vineyards to see a show. Came back via 95 near Trenton.

Griff  Monday Aug 7 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by glatt View Post
A little more from their perspective.

Attachment 61456

xoxoxoBruce  Monday Aug 7 07:00 PM

When there's an accident and traffic stops going by they probably look out the window to see why it's so quiet.

xoxoxoBruce  Wednesday Aug 9 07:40 AM

I rode through the construction yesterday but didn't get a picture. Both to the left and right of the first two pictures in post #22, they are taking down the big trees. Dozens of them.

xoxoxoBruce  Thursday Aug 17 12:23 AM

I went by there on my way out of town yesterday and it appears I was wrong about their plans. The stone face in the first picture (post 22) is being chipped away from the top down.
Speaking of natural gas...

SPUCK  Friday Aug 25 12:16 AM

Fascinating the way they wrote news-copy in those days.

Griff  Friday Aug 25 07:54 AM

Is taking your lamp to check the gas standard practice?

I saw an oil train rolling through town yesterday... its only a matter of time until the next accident. I don't blame environmentalists opposing pipelines though, I see it more as the death throes of the industrial revolution.

xoxoxoBruce  Friday Aug 25 08:36 PM

If you don't have electricity, or ever don't have it in the basement, it is.

fargon  Friday Aug 25 09:20 PM

No flashlights in those days.

Griff  Saturday Aug 26 08:24 AM

I was being a smart ass. I guess the ass part stuck.

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