12/22/2002: Word usage maps

Not as interesting to non US people... or maybe it is?

Many moons ago the IotD featured the Soda vs Pop vs Coke web site, which graphed people's voluntary answers to that etymological question. Harvard has taken this a step further and asked about other words and pronunciations.

In particular I love the HOAGIE result: all of Pennsylvania agrees that the sandwich is not a sub after all. Although we do still have Subways here, and we understand what they're supposed to be, and sometimes we eat them, for the most part we're ordering HOAGIES made by independent sandwich builders. It was, after all, invented on Hog Island for a hearty meal for the working class workers there. And nothing you can tell me will convince me otherwise. I guess.

Discovered by Sycamore... a tip o the hat to the gent.

The real maps are here:

http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~golder/dialect/maps.php

The survey that generated them:

http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~golder/dialect/

We only need to discover why "Hog Island" generated a sandwich called "hoagie" pronounced "hoe-ggie" as opposed to "hah-geie"

Well UT, it was your computer...

Look at those maps on the study site...much more detailed, like the first soda-pop map we had on IotD.

Awesome!

I had no idea that "mischief night" as the night before Halloween was a local thing. (question 110) It looks like Philly/NYC only, except that in Michigan they call it "devil's night". Wow.

And question 117, "cellar" as a term loosely meaning "basement" is mostly from the northeast. I did not know that.

The word has lost some usage, but in St. Louis, the term "poor boy" is still well-used for a sub-style sandwich.

Great data!

I have attempted on more than one occasion to explain to my boyfriend and others the similarities and differences among hoagies, subs, grinders, Norristown zeps and sandwiches, and the overall superiority of the hoagie.

I still haven't convinced them of the reality of tomato pie.

Re: 12/22/2002: Word usage maps

Re: 12/22/2002: Word usage maps

Just went and had a look at the results, some of those questions are pretty wierd, like this one...

56. Pantyhose are so expensive anymore that I just try to get a good suntan and forget about it.
a. acceptable (27.93%)
b. unacceptable (68.49%)
c. not sure (3.57%)
(8338 respondents)

What's that about ? I don't get it, are Pantyhose something different depending on where you are ? To me they are those things that you (well women, mostly) wear over thier legs.

Panyhose are equally vile no matter where you are. :P

I can't stand 'em and go to great lengths to make wardrobe choices that don't require them.

High heels too ... I don't have any desire to break my ankle. (twisted one once, falling off a pair of Candies)

Gimme a pair of boots or sneakers anyday ...

Re: Re: 12/22/2002: Word usage maps

Re: Re: 12/22/2002: Word usage maps

it's not the grammatical thing. It is about the acceptability/unacceptability of a woman dressed in a skirt not to wear pantyhose. Nice girls wear pantyhose. Naughty girls don't.

(I didn't look at the responses, but I'd guess that it's an "unacceptable" statement in most of the South.)

Whoa!

I use care-ah-mel to describe caramel on it's own. I use car-ml to describe caramel on something; such as a car-ml apple or car-ml corn or car-ml candies.

For the pantyhose; that is most unacceptable in the Northeast, and mostly unacceptable in the South. However, it's acceptable in a region around Ohio, Indiana, Missouri, and Western Pennsylvania.

Some of your responses to this were quite interesting. I had no idea that "The Cellar" was supposed to mean "The Basement". I thought you meant a cellar, as in a place where someone stores wine.

It seems very funny to me that most (68%) of the people of the United States don't have a word for the area of lawn between the road and the sidewalk. I remember having to mow "the strips of lawn out by the street". Some of the possible responses to this question seem to be very bizarre: "tree lawn"??? "terrace"???? "berm" might be acceptable, but "parking"??? or "beltway"??? Some people think of a beltway as being that!?

Re: Whoa!

Sick Sick Syc

Quote:

Originally posted by sycamore You know, if I see a woman that wears pantyhose, tights, or stockings...that's more of a turn-on to me than bare legs, depending on the situation. It's probably just me.

Re: Re: 12/22/2002: Word usage maps

All Y'all Got it Right

I don't know how 'All y'all' didn't rate mention in the usage survey -- I've heard it used by many friends from all over the south.

Another odd Picksburgh-ism: dropping the infinitive, as in "I'd love to go dahn t' th' mall with y'uns, but the lawn needs mowed."

As for the use of 'anymore' to mean 'nowadays,' that's common throughout the industrial midwest, where y'uns can't hardly find a decent job, what with the plants closing anymore.

I like hearing women say "naughty bits", but especially Cathy Rogers of "Junkyard Wars/Scrapheap Challenge" fame.

More on those Naughty Bits . . .

. . . a friend of mine cracks up every time he hears that women cover their naughty bits with 'dainties.' (Especially when said dainties are a big ol' pair of white cotton undees.)

Pittsburg-ish translation experience

I grew up in the Los Angeles area but my wife is from the Pittsburg area, Beaver County/Potter Township actually. I thought their use of "yuns" instead of "y'all" was really weird. One day, my wife's family was visiting and a couple of my co-workers came by to pick me up to go to work. As they visited with my inlaws, my sister-in-law asked "so, what'a yuns do?" Everyone of my wife's family (including my wife) turned and looked at my friends expecting an answer. My friends just looked scared.

This was language never heard by them before. They had no idea what was being asked. I held it in for as long as possible and can only be glad I wasn't drinking milk, because I started laughing--hard.

Everyone had a good chuckle when I explained it to them. Otherwise they just would have thought each other rude.

Now if I can only get my wife to stop dropping infinitives. "Clothes needs warshed." Sigh.

Man, where the hell does the "r" in "warsh" come from? This is something that drives me <b>nuts</b>. I know a lot of people that say it - like it's some sort of invisible R. Well folks, <b>it's NOT THERE!</b> I don't mind the dropping of infinitives so much, but who actually looks at "wash" and sees "warsh"? AAAAGGGGGGHHHHH!

I had a friend that used to say "refrigulator" also. It's RE-FRIDGE-ER-A-TOR! She was also, of course, a member of the "warsh" crowd.

That warsh thing pisses me off too. My family's from the Midwest and they say it.

I can honestly say I've never heard anyone say "y'uns" before. Your friends, who are probably as Californian as I am, had every right to be frightened.

My sister has moved to Rhode Island and is starting to lose her "R's".

Hey, youse, I'm gonna pahk the cah ... and get a carriage and go into the mahket ...

Random thinkings

On the night before Halloween, which is Cabbage night,
we drink pop from the fridge with our subs while sitting on the couch (not sofa or davenport) and admire the lovely lawn cutting job someone did on the verge.

Television has reduced language differences somewhat, I think. People are now able to learn California and New York accents as alternatives to their native accent.

I dunno bout youse guys but I'm goin' up the Eynon with a cup a two tree friends gonna get a caffee maybe get a sangwich er two.

the preceding was meant as a refresher course in case anyone is headed for the Wyoming Valley this holiday season.

My Dad's family came from Texas during the Great Depression, "Grapes of Wrath" style. He pronounces the invisible "R" like "warsh your hands" and "You want some squarsh".

Did you want rice with your *Ferjitas*?

"verge", eh? that's a heck of a lot of a better word for it than "tree lawn" or "beltway" or "terrace"!

Your association with BrianR hasn't convinced your folks you're naughty??

I hate those colas. They're both disgusting.

Associations....

Quote:

Originally posted by Dagney Oooh goodie, I'm always looking for more reasons to mortify my family by being 'naughty'.....

I'm glad you got over that Maggie! (Bet you are too ...)

There is an inappropriate question I've asked several of my friends ... did you lose the ability to parallel park, and develop an urge to stop for directions? (Best answer so far: "I couldn't parallel park before ...")

I grew up in a city, where it was necessary to parallel park. Yet, I failed it on my drivers test, and still can't do it very well to this day...even with a Geo Metro. In fact, I think I was better at parking my Chevy Caprice than the Metro. That is sad.

Must agree with you on the directions thing ... definitely a matter of personal style ... I'll stop any buy a map before I'll ask for directions, but then I was a geography and planning major in college.

As far as parking goes ... I'm a grad of the Stevie Wonder school of parallel parking. I don't do too bad, but thats mostly because I took a couple classes in grad school in a building that the best parking for was on-street metered parking. :P

I didn't have to learn it for my driver's exam ... Norristown Barracks didn't make you parallel park. But man, am I good at three point turns ...

And syc ... sometimes with a larger car you have a better idea of what spaces you'll fit in. With a smaller car, you sometimes try for spots that are about six inches too short.

The Guido School of Parallel Parking

Perhaps the spatial distortion concept comes into play there, Wolf...

I just find it funny that I could squeeze that big bastard into a spot on one of Chicago's small streets, yet I have the worst time parking a Metro in a decent-sized spot along Market Street in Philadelphia. In fact, the Caprice is the only car I was able to parallel park halfway-decent, out of the dozen or so cars I've owned/driven on a regular basis (from a 1973 Chrysler New Yorker to the Metro).

Re: The Guido School of Parallel Parking

Re: The Guido School of Parallel Parking

Wow, I didn't know that! (she said, despite her proclivity for being infrequently astonished.) I love how I learn something new here every day.

Just think, if the evolution of the design of cars as personal armament extensions had continued to the present day, that kid wouldn't have had to squeeze into the trunk to shoot all those folks in Virginia and Maryland!

Re: Re: The Guido School of Parallel Parking

Re: Re: The Guido School of Parallel Parking

Missing the Point

(slang rubs his chin in deep thought)

I thought the Cliff Clavin reference was enough to indicate that I was joking, aside from the ridiculousness of the actual post.

The general rule is though, that most all of my posts are an attempt (not always successful Mag ) to be funny. I also have a bad habit to trying to steer any topic into firearms promotion or debate.

<H2>AND</h2> I can bearly spell, express complete thoughts/sentences and butcher grammar. But......I'm pretty comfortable with that.

Don't worry, slang, I think 99 44/100ths (Hey! That's me!) of the readers got the joke.

But I was not joking about the way New Yorkers park -- I was actually taught to do it that way! Doesn't fly too well out here in Mighty-White-land (the suburb where I currently reside).

Saw a cop with a crown vic yesterday. There was a stalled car in front of him, seems to me they used to push clunkers out of the way with their bumpers, but this car had a plastic bumper and no grill guard...

Maybe the cop feared an explosion, given that the Crown Vics are being targeted right now due to an issue with the gas tank.

Local Yokel in Endicott, NY. pretty mellow area mad max no es necessito.

Has anyone here (who's not from the south) ever heard the expression, "If it'd been a snake it'da bitcha!"?

Yep...used primarily in the south and midwest.

Ditto.

Griff's got bitin' snakes up where he's at. I've been to the Rattlesnake Roundup a couple counties west of the end of the PA Turnpike northeast extension.

We also use it down here in the "Flatlands" ... (near phila.)

I put down my machete while we were surveying one time and couldn't find it. My partner shortens the phrase to "rattlesnake" so I freeze in place and start looking for a snake. I considered chopping him to bits.

Word on the street (or in the woods) is that the enormous increase in turkeys has resulted in a plummeting of rattlesnake numbers. Baby snakes mmmmm.... good eatin'.

Anyone know the origin of this..."what in the Sam Hill are you doin'?"
I've heard it plenty in the south, ...there's a great scene in the film 'To Kill a Mockingbird' when Scout asks this, amazed by the actions of her friend Walter, as he pours syrup all over his lunch.
Why in the sam hill is this in my head?

Tee hee. I just watched TKAM last night and was thinking the same thing myself. Where did this come from?

What in the Sam Hill??

I always just thought that it was a polite way to avoid saying H-E-double hockeysticks. You larn sumthin' (which is probably wildly inaccurate) new ever' day.

The page is a bit misleading. It talks about Sam Hill the railroad and highway builder, but then at the bottom of the page it says that the phrase predates him and refers to another person entirely!

I warned you about the "wildly inaccurate" part ... I was hoping that Cecil Adams had declaimed upon this topic in The Straight Dope, but no such luck.