3/12: Man strung up [graphic]

Things have to get worse before they got any better, but how much worse can things be? This Palestinian gentleman was strung up by his own people, an angry mob who accused him of collaborating with Israelis.

To cross threads, is this patriotism in action?

Jag, the warning on the subject line is for you -- in case you're eating brekky, hey you asked for a warning! So if you looked anyway, it's your fault.

I thought just meant that it was a graphic and wasn't text-based!

I was eating brekky!

Wow...look at all those patriotic Paletinians. Isn't patriotism great??

This couldn't happen in the United States, could it?

Say, to someone accused of collaborating with the Taliban ... John Walker Lindh? hmmm ...

Lynchings in America

Yeah, I don't think it could happen to John Walker Lindh. He's sitting in a heavily fortified cell right now. Despite the fact that the government very clearly thinks that he is guilty (after all, they wouldn't prosecute him if they didn't), they've been very careful about preserving his rights and not allowing a bunch of rednecks to git that there boy an' string 'im up.

juju - I believe the proper adjective is "murderous". Let's take a look at what WordNet has to say about it.

No, man... sorry.. it's just the way I am. :]

The big picture

So, let's say that Israel came out of its face and said that this particular man WAS an Israeli collaborator.

And, we have Palestinians...Arabs...attacking this man.

Would this then be an attack against Israel? And if so, would we really nuke the Palestinians?

I don't think we'd nuke the Palestinians anyway. They attack Israel every day and we don't do shit.

Enemy

Worse has happened in war.

But if we are at war with those that would do this (which we aren't - there's a difference between al Queda and the Palestinians), then we must beware the fortunes that will befall our combatants.

That is, be prepared to see this. Like in Somalia.

In the end, I think our efforts are just. With freedom as our protector, so shall we complete our tasks abroad.

We will be successful. It's a war worth fighting.

A Moment Cafe moment

Last Saturday night in Israel.

If this image is too real for the political rhetoric of this thread, UT can take it down.

[Edit] It says "graphic" in the thread header, and I wouldn't have posted it otherwise. UT can update that warning to "Too Graphic" or take it down. The source is a news site. It may be worth knowing what the people in territory are seeing to understand the escallating responses on both sides.

Oh Nic, that is gross!

Soon to be available on Rotten, if that's not where you got it in the first place. I'd prefer some kind of caveat before seeing that!

BTW, where did you get that image (nudge)?

jag, there's surely enough blame on both sides. Pointing fingers and seeking revenge will never solve anything.

That being said, I do notice a not so slight difference in the way each side prosecutes their war (perhaps it has eluded you):

The Israelis seem to be concentrating on legitimate targets or actual combatants. To do otherwise would attact even more international condemnation, probably from the US as well. Even they know better.

Palestinians, on the other hand, resort to guerilla and suicidal tactics. Admittedly, it is the only avenue open to them, but what possible cause does it serve to walk into a bus, disco or cafe with high-explosives strapped to your body simply to kill a lot of civilians?

I'm not saying either side is right, but one side is hamstrung by rules that the other side does not respect.

Didn't September 11 and its aftermath teach you anything?

A little more perspective on the subject

Israel is a very small country, about 8000 square miles. That's about twice the size of Los Angeles County, with basically the same population density and ethnic diversity.

Now let's take very analogous situations (although there are differences in the cause). Remember the L.A. riots of the '60s and early '90s? What if some of the rioters had come into the suburban neighborhoods and started randomly killing large numbers of people. What do you think the response would have been?

If you said mass retaliation on South Central by the folks from the Valley, you would most certainly be wrong.

Frankly, I think the Israeli response has been remarkably restrained, given the circumstances. Maybe we could offer one side or the other a place to relocate in the vast uninhabited regions of the American West. Shit, they all live in a desert now anyway...

Nic, from your article

"Israeli tanks and troops thrust into Palestinian refugee camps and took command of the streets in this key West Bank city today, killing 31 Palestinians in one of Israel's largest military operations ever in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

Seven Israelis were killed, including six in an ambush just inside the border with Lebanon. The attackers disguised as Israeli soldiers were reportedly Palestinians who slipped across Israel's previously quiet northern frontier - raising the prospect of a new front in the current Middle East conflict."

The key words here are "The attackers disguised as Israeli soldiers".

They would, if captured, been treated as spies.

Nic's right, no good guys. The question is, what can WE do. Any ideas?

I don't have the Insurrection Manual

But I do have the Anarchists Cookbook, which is better!

Which one would you use on your fellow countrymen, since you're so pissed off?

Don't worry, the irony of the jews commiting some of the worst systematic persecution since the holocost is not lost. Arafat himself was commenting the other day on who they were writing numbers on people, and how similar it was to the tatooing of jewish prisoners in concentration camps.

Yes, the Palestinian militants often hang out in refugee camps. I think even jaguar would admit that.

As far as Israel's atrocities, I think that they should be noted right alongside with the Palestinian militants'. I'm definitely not a big fan of Sharon, but I'm afraid of what Netanyahu will do if he gets re-elected.

The problem with the Palestinian militants, and this is an irrefutable <b>fact</b>, is that they <b>target civilians</b>. They revel in the death of innocent people who were just trying to have some good eatin' at Sbarro, just trying to have a good time at a Tel Aviv disco, just trying to go home. Many of these people have <b>no problem</b> with the Palestinians, but they're getting slaughtered anyway. Last year, a suicide bomber, dressed as an observant Jew, went to a French language <b>school</b> and blew himself up. A <b>school</b>.

How is Israel supposed to respond? "Oh, okay. Thanks for killing our civilians. Please don't do it again."

They can't exactly just go "Okay, well you got 21 of us, so we're gonna round up 21 innocent Palestinians of the same ages of the victims and blow them up." That would be awful and wrong. But it would also be the equivalent of what Palestinian militants are doing to Israel.

jag - I suggest you do some reading on the 1929 Hebron massacre before you start bitching about how Israel started it. Or maybe take a gander at the story of Exodus. Arab-Jewish tensions go back quite a ways.

As for your example of Vietnam - millions of people repressed and fighting a war with little supplies - okay. How about one Mohandas Gandhi?

As I have said before, <b>the Palestinians have the most to gain</b>. They have to bring people around to their side. You get more flies with sugar than you do with water...

Thankyou bruteforce for displaying truely amazing feats of myopic and lack of knowledge. Even if it were possible to hold peaceful protests without intervention of Isreal, Isreal then has absoltuely no motivation to offer any concessions. On otp of that, thats a bit liek trying to clam a bee's nest while hitting it with a baseball bat, which is what isreal is doing, thn wondering why the get bitten.

Let me elaborate a little, make myself seem a tad more balanced, I'm sure most of us at least are aware than the shit should be evenly spread, no one is without blame, my outburst was more based around Israel’s currant smoke-and-mirrors excuse for all out war than the history of the conflict.
Since the Yom Kippur war(yes, probably wrong spelling, I’m sure you know what I’m talking about), Syria, Jordan, Egypt et al have had no other outlet for their hatred of Israel than the Palestinians, provisions of hardware, money, support are not exactly unknown, the poor Palestinians are pawns on both sides.

A Palestinian state...*sighs* No one, wants a Palestinian state except the Palestinians, namely because parts of Jordan, Syria and other are actually what should be Palestine historically as much as the west back and Gaza strip are. Obviously these nations are not willing to give it, who would? But they expect Israel to. Of course those territories existed long before 1948, and 1967, but the fact remains.

Dham, I’m well aware of the history, I’m probably going to be studying it in very, very though depth in a couple of months, I’m already well aware of the long, long history on both sides. Yes militant do hang out in camps, because that is where some of the poorest and most dispossessed live, what you expect. As for ghandi, that required far more people, a special circumstances (weakening colonial government for example, and not being shot en-mass while demonstrating helps too). Civilians are not nice things to target, but still, I can understand why, they need to scare the shit out of Israel in their eyes before they will get anywhere, its probably true.

As for the US, the UN if you hadn’t noticed can pass as many fucking motions, memorandums, statements and memos as it wants, its still only as powerful as its member states will let it be. The US now has good motivation tell Israel to get its shit together, but I’m not holding out for a magical UN army of fairies waving their wands solving the problem. International bodies get weaker the more member states they have, the UN has 190.


Personally I say demolish Jerusalem, abolish religion, and the world would be a far happier place =)

*ducks for cover*

Riddle ---

Q: Why hasn't anyone been legally executed in Israel lately?

A: Bullets are cheaper than rope.

-03#

Re: Nic, from your article

Here tw is mostly right, with the exception of "Israel army, under command of extremists, is a primary reason for all the violence." As I started previously, one can't just say the other is a primary cause. They both keep dumping fuel on the flames. <b>Both</b> are primary causes.

Everything else is spot-on though. Sharon doesn't want peace. This should be obvious to anyone that closely observes the conflict. The attacks on Palestinian police headquarters and the like are unwarranted.

The problem, like I've said before, is that extremist Palestinians continually give Israel the justification to strike. Not necessarily a police headquarters, but to <b>do something</b>. If there were no more suicide bombings/shootings, Israel would be hard pressed to blow up Arafat's Gaza compound.

tw - just curious - why "dichead" and not "dickhead"?

Quote:

Originally posted by dhamsaic tw - just curious - why "dichead" and not "dickhead"?

The eagle did land, correct?

This image
<img src="http://www.msnbc.com/c/0/68/286/10x7/twip_2002_0314_05.jpg">

fits in with the first one in this post.

"Vigilante justice
Masked Palestinians pull the body of Mahmoud Sabatin up the stairs of a building in the Bethlehem on March 14, intending to hang it from the roof. Sabatin, who was sentenced for collaborating with Israel by the Palestinian Authority, was shot dead by armed Palestinians not affiliated with Palestinian security."

sapienza

Aye, Sharon wants peace as demonstrated by his soldier's actions! Indeed

Bleh

bump

interesting read from the beginning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic Name This couldn't happen in the United States, could it? Say, to someone accused of collaborating with the Taliban ... John Walker Lindh? hmmm ... Lynchings in America