3/30/2006: Wildfires melt metal sign, kill livestock

xoB sends along this one, from a gallery of wildfire images from the Texas Farm Bureau, but it's the ones he didn't send along that really blew my mind.



The worst devastation of this particular wildfire: apparently it spread so fast that the livestock didn't have time to react, or they found themselves fenced in and unable to escape. The gallery contains several shots that are much more horrible than the one I've chosen above. (And xoB avoided - showing our different sensibilities perhaps?)

I've been lurking for awhile now, but these pictures were very sad. The others from the Farm Bureau make it even more real. How sad that these poor animals couldn't get out of the way.

I've heard that one of the agents in the rapid spread of such range fires are burning rabbits -- other than the wind, of course.

That's terrible. But what do they do with the carcasses after?

Oh. I took a look at the gallery. >_< They're just shovelling the cattle in!

It is my understanding that there were people similarly trapped and burned alive as well. Several people.

Too done!

One of the pictures suggests, at least, that some of the animals were attempting to escape but were bound by the fences. So sad.

I had no idea grass fires got hot enough to melt a sign like that, or was this also a very impressively windy day (hence, the fabric-like appearance of it) as well?

That's really really sad seeing all those poor cattle trapped and not able to get away from the fire. What a horrible death they must have suffered.

Although the picture is listed as a metal sign, I suspect it was really plastic on a metal post. Otherwise all the other metal in the picture might have melted too.

All the other metal is steel (iron) which would require 2500 to 3000 degrees F.
I should think plastic would have burned, but you could be right.

I think it may be plastic as well .

Sad thing about the critters

If those images bring you down, click on the Scenery link- http://www.txfb.org/scenery.asp , It has some real nice Chamber of Commerce type pics. I like the piggies and the baby goats!

I lived through some wildfires in southern California and remember watching a wall of fire sweeping up one end of a canyon only to reach the end and come down the other side. Breathtaking!

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce All the other metal is steel (iron) which would require 2500 to 3000 degrees F. I should think plastic would have burned, but you could be right.

I hadn't thought about it, but looking back at the image again, I think the sign is clearly plastic. The sign post has two cross members to support the sign. This would be consistent with posting a plastic sign, which would need more support to keep from flexing in the wind. Think of every aluminum stop sign you've ever seen. There are always two holes on a ceter post holding the thing up. Cross braces are rarely used for a metal sign this size.

Now look down at the ground behind the fence. There is an unbroken glass bottle. Everyone knows that glass breaks in a hot fire. It didn't break.

Now look over to the bushes here and there. They are charred, yes, but not incinerated. If the fire was hot enough to melt aluminum, those bushes would not be there any longer.

I think this fire was hot, but not super hot. It was hot enough to melt the plastic sign, but not hot enough to ignite it. I've seen pictures on the net of a Saturn that was parked close to a building that burned down. The body panels are all melted and droppy, just like this sign. Of course I couldn't find a picture now to show you, but I did find this melted vinyl siding picture.

Hmmm you could be onto summt Glatt...I would argue your points...many small ali signs have cross members to aid installation whereas many plastic signs are a cheap alternative, often fixed through the face and not supported with ali thus increasing the costs to a level that you might as well have ali in the first place...Glass will become extremely fragile under extreme heat but not break unless a force is applied. A bottle can sit in a fire an not break. It will melt if the fir is hot enough. It wont break unless corked/capped and expanding air breaks it or it is hit in some manner...and finally...the heat of a fire can be localised, scorching some plantlife, wiping out others but hey! Im no expert. The real clue here for anyone who cares would be the text still on the sign...that cetainly couldnt withstand the heat needed to melt ali, whether it was lead paint, vinyl graphics or anything else...so...plastic it is.

Sometimes the friday IotD is disturbing. This is one of those times. I love animals. I hate to see this sort of thing.

Psst..Bri? This was Thursday's IoTD...disturbing none the less, but the Friday Critter Pictures are generally...happier.

I suspect plastic too. Aluminium, when it melts, tends to oxidize really quickly unless you either put it in an innert atmosphere, or you have enough bulk that the dross on the top keeps the 02 from the bulk of the Al. In other words, it would turn to a white brittle powder pretty quickly

Heck - not hard to demonstrate what happens - drink a can of your favorite beverage that comes in an Al can - go to your BBQ, and build a fire around the empty can - look at what happens

Jinx - I have melted a few bottles as well , you have to make the fire right , in a good glass melting fire an AL can will simply go AWAY QUICKLY , but a bottle MUSt be heated evenly or it will crack ,
Once camping a friend and I cracked open a 1/5 of GoldSchloger and lit the fire at the same time , when the bottle was empty the fire was RIGHT ( so were we ) , we melted that THICK bottle into a pool of moltent glass , but when my friend fell in the river , ,,
well the wifes put us both to bed , the next morning there was this blob of glass with a few gold felcks in it ,

OK, yer all wrong... the sign *was* fiberglass

so EMOFWB!

the sign *was* fiberglass


No WAY !!! Fglas would have burned and fallen apart , not melted and streched in the wind .
Please site your sources . ( yeppers , I'm call'n you out!!! )

DAMIFINO. When I first looked at the picture, I thought it was plastic, but the website said metal. They were there, so I accepted it was metal and deduced it would have to aluminum if it were indeed metal.

The fire could have been considerably hotter along the fence line because of increased vegetation that naturally grows there.

Thin aluminum like a can will indeed turn white but I've melted thicker pieces with a torch and it just sat there and did nothing until it suddenly became liquid, no warning, with a paper thin "skin" over it. The "skin" was not thick enough to keep it from flowing.

Also an aluminum can is a different alloy than a sign would be made from and aluminum age hardens just hanging around.

I agree the lettering surviving is odd but that could be due to the rapid heating or the coloring being absorbed by the "skin".

Besides, as we all know, Texans never lie.

I vote for Plastic or Fiberglass as there appears to be light coming THROUGH the material at the upper right bolt and also along the long strand. Can't be reflected light as the angle of the adjacent pieces is wrong for the angle of the sun. Light would not go through metal this thick. Goes through very thin gold sheets I hear though.

Welcome to the Cellar, davistud.

Can't be fiberglass because it would char to powder. Only thermo-setting materials can do the taffy imitation. Plastic is still in the running though.

I think what you're seeing as light coming through, is actually direct light on parts of a three dimentional "sculpture" of sorts.

Hell, you're in Texas, Run out and check for us.......please.

Yeah that sign just looks TOO familiar. It is either a buried gas pipeline sign, you know, don't dig here or something. OR it is a no trespassing sign offering a 5000$ reward for stolen cattle from the Farm Bureau. I have seen it a thousand times and it is one of those I bet.
OK the light I am seeing is on the pieceof plastic BETWEEN the reflection you see and the bolt. There is a curve in the plastic there. The reflection is on one side of the curve and the light passing through the material is on the side closest to the bolt. Hot reflection, then a more subtle translucent pass through of light. Gotta look close.

The rectangular area outlined by 1-2-3-4 ? Looks to me like it's a retainer under the bolt head. Not translucent but that color, probably metal, and flat against the mounting steel. If that's the case, then the sign must be plastic as they wouldn't need a retainer that size to hold a metal sign.

That means the Farm Bureau, or their agent, lied....and probably killed Kenny, too.

The rectangular area outlined by 1-2-3-4 ?
Looks to me like it's a rectangular washer under the bolt head. Not translucent but that color, probably metal, and flat against the mounting steel.
If that's the case, then the sign must be plastic as they wouldn't need a retainer that size to hold a metal sign.

That means the Farm Bureau, or their agent, lied....and probably killed Kenny, too.

Looks like plastic to me. Aluminum doesn't have a plastic state between liquid and solid. It would no more flow like that than an ice cube would.

Lots of thermo plastics will act like taffy at 150-200 degrees but won't burn until double or triple that. It is what makes vacuum forming possible.

who cares?!!!

I do. A little.

I dont believe it...still goin? take a breather folks! Lifes a bit too short